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Buondì.
“Why studying grammar is a waste of time” is the sort of topic that will provoke a reaction from people who think they know better than I do. And people like that irritate me.
So react by leaving a comment on this article, rather than emailing. Also, that way, others can read your words and decide for themselves if they make more sense than what I wrote.
I’ll add a link to the website version of this article here ( https://onlineitalianclub.com/why-studying-grammar-is-a-waste-of-time/ ). Just click it, scroll to the bottom of the page and fill out the comments form.
Your email address is required, but won’t be published. Comments are pre-moderated, so won’t be visible immediately. Be patient. All genuine comments, however unbalanced, will be published. I only weed out the unpleasant spam and dangerous stuff.
So why is studying grammar a waste of time?
Well actually, it isn’t NECESSARILY a waste of time, it just tends to be, for a lot of people, a lot of the time.
A massive problem with the language teaching/learning industry, and to an extent everyone in it, is that there is no solid understanding of what we could call the ‘science’ of language learning (or teaching.)
There’s lots of research, of course, lots of methods, lots of approaches. There are today’s fashionable ways of doing things, and yesterday’s anachronistic techniques.
But basically, no one really knows. Some people know how to teach/learn some things, few people, even the most experienced, know how to teach/learn everything, to everyone, all of the time.
Take a simple, simple, simple example: YOU ARE LEARNING.
That’s the present continuous/present progressive tense form in English. Schools in English-speaking countries don’t, I expect, bother to teach it, as it’s such an obvious and essential part of English that kids from native-English-speaking families know it before they even get to school.
English native-speaker college graduates who train to teach English as a foreign language might first encounter the ‘tenses’ – in the sense of being able to write a list of their names and forms – when they begin training to actually teach. Until then, they’ve never needed to know. British schools waste children’s time on other things, so spelling when I was a kid, and phonics now (don’t ask…)
But YOU ARE LEARNING, the progressive aspect, either exists in your native tongue AND the language you’re hoping to learn, or in one but not the other, or in neither. So a teacher/learner might face completely different situations:
Learner knows the form from their own language / recognises it as the same in the language they’re learning
Learner knows the form from their own language / expects to see it in the language they’re learning, but it doesn’t exist, or has a different use, or is more/less important
Learner doesn’t know the form from their own language / needs to learn it ‘from scratch’ in the language they’re learning
Learner doesn’t know the form from their own language / it’s not present in the language they’re learning either
Two of those situations present complications, right? The other two should, potentially, be easier.
But now lets switch to an Italian class, and a different example, irregular verb conjugations (if you just threw up, here’s a napkin).
Vado, vai, va, andiamo, andate, vanno.
I remember studying those on a bus in London a year before I moved to Italy in 1997… Was I wasting my time? Read on.
French and Spanish students are unfazed by the lesson on ‘andare’, nor by subsequent lessons which cover its past tense, which auxiliary verb it needs, when the endings of the past participle need to agree, and so on and so forth.
After all, it’s much the same in their own language. We hear from Spanish students learning Italian, and vice versa, all the time how HARD each other’s langauges are, when what they really mean is that they can immediately and effortlessly understand the other language up to a certain point, due to the significant similarities (in a way that a native English language learner could never dream of) but not pefectly, poverini.
So back to the Italian class, which, besides French and Spanish students, also has Americans, Australians, and Brits in it.
The native English speakers who already know French, or Spanish, or both, are similarly unfazed by the ‘andare’ lesson.
Sure, vado, vai, va, andiamo, andate, vanno, and the boys aren’t exactly the same as they’d be in Spanish or French. But the way things basically work is clearly approximately the same, so no worries.
For those who know another language with a similar root, learning Italian is going to be a walk in the park (just as with our Spanish/Italian, Italian/Spanish learners), as long as they pay attention and notice the points of difference. Poi, a bit of practice, and hey presto!
What about, though, the native English speakers who DON’T already know French or Spanish? Especially the ones who may have never successfully learnt any foreign language before?
For us, it’s an entirely different matter – lessons are confusing, slow, humiliating, and stressful – hence the urge to vomit on your conjugations, or quit.
Some (not all) language teachers being dumbasses (see this article), they may fail to appreciate that Student A will find this easy FOR A REASON while Student B will find this scary and difficult, also FOR A REASON. They just mark people down as ‘slow’ or ‘difficult’.
Some (not all) students being dumbasses, they think the problem is their advanced age, or weak hearing, rather than the fact that they’ve never learnt a language before and that their native tongue has little similarity to Italian.
“But these young Spanish/French people, with their young ears, can do it. Why can’t I?”
Summarising so far, how you learn/teach grammar is going to depend a lot on the extent of the similarity of the grammar in the target language (the one you’re learning/teaching) to the students’ native tongues.
In a mono-lingual class (think a group of British fourteen-year-olds) then at least, to a large extent, the students share a common native tongue. A canny teacher will therefore highlight the similarities and differences in the ‘target’ language, ensuring that the students get more/less practice, and at an appropriate time in their linguistic development.
Some ‘hard’ grammar, such as the gender of nouns, is unavoidable even with young children. Other heavy stuff will be best left until much later, so the later teenage years when the kids have more deveoped cognitive skills, by which time almost everyone will have quit already.
Reader, if you do an Italian evening class in your home town of Baltimore, Dublin, Manchester, Melbourne or wherever, you will likely be in a mostly monolingual group, and assuming your teacher has at least a minimum of competence and experience (not guaranteed…), your class will focus on grammar that needs to be learnt, that can’t be put off, in the sequence that is most teachable/learnable, so hopefully the most productive, relative to your aims (which are??)
The plan of what to teach/learn, and in what order, is called a syllabus. Ideally, the syllabus your class follows will be appropriate for you (not guaranteed…)
But what if, carried away with enthusiasm from reading my articles, you decide to come study at our Italian school in Italy, or take some online lessons with an Italian native speaker teacher?
If you’re doing individual lessons, you’d hope that your teacher would be smart enough to take into account the difference between the target ‘Italian’ and your native tongue, plus any other languages you might know well, and proceed accordingly (not guaranteed, some don’t even ask…)
Perhaps they’ll use a syllabus similar to what your teacher in Baltimore, Dublin, Manchester, Melbourne or wherever might be using, asssuming that said person was competent. Probably not, though. They’ll probably teach you the same grammar, in the same order, as they would if you were Chinese, or French, or Uzbek.
What if you choose the cheaper, more sociable, group class option? Same problem, in all likelihood. There you are with a Spanish speaker on your left, a Ukrainian on your right, and two giggly Japanese girls opposite. Where will the teacher even start?? Using what syllabus? Designing lessons for who, exactly? Meeting whose needs, and in what order?
If it feels like you’re the slowest in your multi-lingual class, it’s PROBABLY NOT YOUR FAULT, it’s due to other learners having it easier because of their native tongues or other languages they know. And vice versa, if you think you’re a language-learning superstar, maybe you’re comparing yourself to people who have it harder than you do.
So far we’ve looked at just two examples of grammar (an English tense, an Italian irregular verb conjugation) and why studying them might be hard for some students but easier for others. But remember, there’s a lot of grammar to get through!
Italian has dozens, hundreds of common irregular verbs. Its tenses are different from in English. There are masculine and feminine nouns. There’s the famously difficult conjunctive. There are tenses which are mostly only used in writing not in speech. There’s regional variation in tense use.
In short there’s a lot to learn, I don’t expect anyone to disagree with that point, at least.
Here, I’ll paraphrase a typical emailer, who writes to berate me for downplaying the importance of grammar:
“Of course you’re wrong, Daniel. If students want to learn to speak a language PROPERLY, then they MUST study the grammar!”
Why?
Define ‘properly’.
By when?
In which order?
Evaluating success using what mechanism?
And if studying in a group course? Which compromises are acceptable?
It’s all BS, as Americans say. There is no ‘properly’. There is no perfect student who will start at zero and months/years down the line will reach 100%, and maintain that, effortlessly, forever.
Diplomats, maybe, as the government pays. Priests, who don’t have families and earning a living to worry about. But normal people?
Normal people like you and I would, of course, like to speak ‘properly’, but mostly they’d just like to speak at all. And understand what others say to them. And ‘properly’ impedes that.
Which brings me to those learning Italian via self study, which is largely who OnlineItalianClub.com is for.
We are the road warriors! We are heroes! We are doing it for ourselves, and doing it better!
Oorah!
Of course, we have a lot of grammar to learn, and limited hours in the day, and only seven days in the week, with no smartass teacher to tell us how to proceed/get in the way.
Insomma, we have CHOICES to make, primarily four of them:
– what to study that will bring the most benefit with the least effort/time (syllabus)
– in what order to study those things (syllabus again)
– how to study these things (what method, book, app, etc.)
– how to stay motivated for the time it takes to get results
With me so far?
So, by ‘Why studying grammar is a waste of time’ what I really mean is that ‘studying grammar’, as commonly understood, doesn’t help us make those choices.
Whereas…
Class – here’s a quick concept-check question, to see who’s been paying attention – ready?
What does Daniel usually advise???
Very good, Manuela – read and listen a lot, that’s one of the two main things.
And yes, Pete, well done! Exactly that! Start interacting with native speakers of the language you’re learning, as soon as possible!
So why does Daniel advise these things? Let me answer this one myself, briefly.
Reading/listening to graded materials (designed for your level), such as the free stuff on our site, our ebook easy readers, and anything where there is audio and a transcript, gives your brain plenty of ‘input’ to work on.
Which means it can learn new words, their pronunciation, and common grammar structures, in a CONTEXT which is at least partly understandable.
And that – assuming you keep this up for a reasonable time – the FREQUENCY WITH WHICH YOU ARE EXPOSED TO ‘new’ language works as a guide to what’s important/useful.
The more often someone says ‘vado’ or ‘andiamo’ for instance, or ‘terremoto’ for that matter, the more useful the terms are.
And USEFUL language presented in a CONTEXT should be both easy to understand, and easy to remember.
Also, all this time you have also been developing your reading and listening ‘skills’, too, so not just focusing on grammar and new words.
As regards interacting with a native speaker, well isn’t that the entire point? What? You’re prefer not to start until you know the grammar ‘properly’? Go to the back of the class, idiot. Interacting with a native speaker is the fast track to knowing how people use the language you’re learning.
Again, it provides your brain with FREQUENCY data, and CONTEXT. And skills practice. You’ll be already doing, albeit in a limited way, precisely that ‘output’ that you were hoping for. Just sooner.
Why am I always trying to hammer home the ‘Why studying grammar is a waste of time’ message?
It’s not that I don’t think grammar is an essential component of language. It totally is. Just not all of it. And not all of it is easily learnable anyway. And life is short.
It’s because, for most people, studying grammar and learning lists of words OUT OF CONTEXT – so study, memorise, test yourself – is all they know how to do. And they do it to the exclusion of other, more productive things.
So they’re not doing speaking or listening practice, as they plan to do that ‘later’, when they ‘finish the grammar’…
And hence, can’t speak or understand.
And so are disappointed, and doubt themselves.
Any teacher that really gives a damn about their students, hates to see that. It pains us. We want everyone to learn! And we want everyone to know they can learn. Totally. No exceptions!
We know from experience that there’s nothing about language learning that everyone can’t do, given time and an appropriate approach. It isn’t rocket science.
We’ve seen success happen lots of times – students have gone from zero to hero!
Unfortunately, we’ve also seen that many more never got very far, perhaps because they had unrealistic expectations and/or were doing the wrong things. People get demotivated, so drop out. Happens all the time.
The problem is that motivation is 100% of language learning, and for a lot of us, studying irregular verb conjugations is just not very motivating.
Chatting with native speakers, reading engaging stories, and doing listening practice tasks are, on the other hand, fun!
As well as being useful, for the reasons outlined above – context, frequency, etc.
Remember, don’t email. Comment here instead: https://onlineitalianclub.com/why-studying-grammar-is-a-waste-of-time/
Alla prossima settimana.
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P.S.
Don’t forget to read/listen to Tuesday’s FREE bulletin of ‘easy’ Italian news from EasyItalianNews.com. See now why you should??
The ‘easy news’ bulletins – published each Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday – contain simplified articles with an online audio recording.
They’re free to access on the website, with no registration required. But subscribe (also free), and they’ll email you each bulletin as soon as it is published, so a helpful thrice-weekly reminder to work on your Italian reading and listening skills!
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OnlineItalianClub.com | EasyItalianNews.com | Shop (ebooks) | Shop (online lessons)
Marianne says
A waste of time? Never!
I suppose that, if you simply wish to know the absolute essentials (eg ‘please’, ‘thank you’, ‘I would like’ etc), for just one visit, you don’t need to study the grammar of a language.
But what are you going to do if you ask for something and receive a lengthy response? Will you understand it? Will you be able to reply/explain in detail to a waiter or shop assistant?
If you intend to visit a country several times, then it is well worth the effort to learn the language properly – which includes the grammar and structure of that language. That way, you put yourself in a position where you can have some sort of conversation – whether basic or advanced and you are definitely more able to get yourself out of a problematic situation.
In addition to all this, it’s fun (as well as possibly difficult) to learn another language and take part in all the activities which can be arranged as part of the course.
Daniel says
Define ‘properly’.
Barry says
I can get by and have basic chats, and improved much quicker when I stopped concentrating on grammar and focused on talking, reading and writing
Pete Turtle says
I have NEVER studied Italian grammar, or the grammar of any other language for that matter. Neither have I ever taken lessons in Italian language (Sorry Daniel). However, my level is probably C1/C2, gained from simply communicating with Italians in Italy.
In summary, I am living proof that studying grammar is not necessary, but that listening / speaking / reading / writing is very useful, even if decidedly difficult at the outset.
mary says
I agree with nearly everything you say Daniel, although you could probably (or even properly😊) find a slightly shorter way of saying it 😊. As a native speaker of English and previous teacher of English as a second language and German to adults I always stressed that understanding and communicating in another language is much more important than speaking using totally correct grammar – because grammar is changing all the time anyway and different grammatical forms are accepted as correct in different parts of the world where English is the mother tongue – of course people should learn the grammar but of the language but not at the expense of communication – unless that is their explicit aim. I could go on and on but I don’t want to “outrant” Daniel.🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sylvia says
I love it when you go off on one, Daniel. Makes me laugh. But I felt you were speaking directly to me because I know that listening and reading in context is definitely the way. You can’t get away from the grammar and it too is interesting. I’m feeling a bit at an impasse at the moment but I found your article motivating and I’m going to renew my efforts.
Robert says
Bravo Daniel! If I was responsible for teaching people who wanted to become foreign language teachers (I’m not – I’m a language learner (five so far, sort of)) I would make your wise words a set text.
Live long and prosper!
Lynn Dorling says
I love reading your articles and ‘rants’! I agree with everything you say. I scraped an O level in French many years ago. It was badly taught by a teacher with an appalling geordie/french accent. My best friend was a natural linguist and after a couple of years was fluent. This resulted in me never ever wanting to speak it. I was in my 30s when I finally realised that my overriding need was to communicate and I stopped worrying and dragged out vocab from my brain . I did to an evening course with French person – she was useless! So when we went to France I just took a deep breath and spoke to people! Gradually my confidence improved and now I can get by in France – living with French friends , talking French all the time. Not fluent but good enough.
When I retired a friend suggested that we could run a French Cafe Conversation group in our local French restaurant. There is no structure, no committee, no cost , no commitment- just buy a coffee etc. This was so successful that we started Spanish, Italian and German groups, We kept all going through Covid either on Zoom or in our cathedral garden ( rain , cold and shine) socially distanced! We’ve been going fourteen years now and go from strength to strength. I have learned Italian using all the aids offered on the net. Duolingo, Easy Italian News, Daniel’s great graded easy readers and many other websites/ apps. My Italian is possibly better than my French now . I talk both languages once a week and Italian more often.. The groups are strong social groups and I realised early on that we were also doing a social service! There is no competition and we learn together. It has been a massive surprise to me a non-linguist to end up being so involved in running this scheme.
Thank you Daniel for your crusading zeal!
Lynn 😊
Lynne F says
Hi Lynn, aged 12, my school French teacher told me that he was only teaching me French because he had to. I had no aptitude for languages. So I gave up.
Many years later approaching 60 I decided to give Italian a go inspired by my frequent trips there. Several years on I can communicate reasonably well in different circumstances, “so there” to my French teacher. I have now embarked on learning Polish and slowly I am progressing. So well done to us older learners and keep going Lynne F
Soeli says
Hi! I couldn’t agree more! I’m an English teacher in Brazil, whose native language is Portuguese, learning Italian by myself, in the beginning to be able to apply for the Italian naturalization through marriage, then totally in love with the Italian language.
From my teaching and learning experience, grammar is necessary sometimes to justify the “whys” but it shouldn’t be the starting point. I can see the frustration on students’ faces when throw a bunch of forms and sentences on the board and ask them to produce similar examples as opposed to when you help them create a personalized dialogue in groups.
Graziie mile! A presto.!
Cynthia Skipper says
well…. after reading your letter about grammar being a waste of time, I have several thoughts. I live in the US, I am a native english speaker, I have never attempted to learn another language, save a Spanish and French class in High school. I am also 60 years old. My adventure in learning another language started because according to my reserach the only 2 ways as an adult to grow brian cells, one learn to play an instrument or learn a language. I have absolutly no musical talent, so I choose learning a language. I choose Italian, because when I hear it spoken it sounds like beautiful music, and I dreamed of that coming out of me! I did some reserach came up with a language learning app Bussu, this app provides speaking excerses that are corrected by native speakers, this by far is my favorite feature of the app. Though this app I have developed a fridendship with a italian speaker, who could see I really wanted to LEARN the language. He offered to tutor me and the first thing we started with is … you guest it grammar! That’s because grammar is an intricate part of being able to speak Italian, to know who you are talking about, what you are trying to describe, what you want to say. As he explianed to me Italian is such a specific language each word almost, has specific “rules” regarding grammar, a lot of words have masculine and feminine versons so if you use masculine articles with a feminine word, you will not be understood in Italy or speaking with any Italian, do this constantly and you will not be able to communicate. Maculine and feminine words are just the beging oh so much more in the realm of articles (what I consider grammar). Italain grammer is hard. But if you want to speak the language not just memorize words and phrases, learning the grammar is absolutly essential. It has taken a long time but I am getting a grip on using proper grammar in Italian. My personal opinon of why so many hate grammar is because they don’t remember the grammar rules of there own language. At 60 I have long ago forgotten grammar rules of the English language .I’ll shamfully admit, I think this makes learning grammar of another language doubly difficult. But if you really want to learn another language, it is a must!!!!!!!!!
Barry says
Hi Cynthia, I manage to get myself understood when talking to native speakers by concentrating on speaking, listening and writing, I know some grammar, in particular Essere and Avere plus other verbs, but it is not a big part of my learning. When in Italy if I make a mistake they help me out.
Lynne F says
Well, your ‘rant’ has certainly provoked comments Daniel, and I am on team Daniel with this one. I taught the Reception Class for many years in a school where 23 languages were spoken. How often did I hear “I runned”? Did I make the children recite verb conjugations? NO! I provided a rich language environment where speaking and listening were at the heart of everything. By the end of the school year, very few of the children said or wrote “I runned”
In my own language journey, I try to listen, speak and read as much as possible. The patterns of sentence structure and grammar begin to fall into place without studying.
Yes, grammar does have a place but in my opinion, it should be something that blends in with my learning, not something that forms a barrier to it.
Keep on ranting Daniel, they always bring a smile to my face and hopefully will encourage others to drop the grammar hang up 🙂
Giulia says
Secondo me, la grammatica è come si dice negli Stati Uniti, “is a nice to have and not a must have”. Sono brava a superare gli esami di grammatica, ma non mi danno alcun supporto nella vita quotidiana. Parlare e far rispettare il contesto ha portato il mio italiano a un altro livello. Questo non vuol dire che non riconosco le strutture grammaticali nella lettura, nella scrittura e nel parlato e cerco di capirle, ma non ne faccio il mio obiettivo principale. Io penso soprattutto ad arricchire il mio italiano e non mi preoccupo troppo della grammatica. Questo mi ha permesso di avere un flusso più naturale con il mio italiano. Dopo tutto è un viaggio che dura tutta la vita, quindi perché non godersi il viaggio?
Adi says
Hello Daniel,
I respectfully disagree !
I struggle to make sense of the sentences unless I know how they come together.
AND I happen to know someone who learnt English without learning the grammar. She speaks with perfect accent and is totally fluent but still makes silly unnecessary grammar mistakes from time to time. She is aware of this but cannot help herself.
Zsuzsanna Snarey says
I think there are two different kinds of people, some want to know EXACTLY why and how a language works, and others who just accept things and get on with the speaking, listening and reading.
My native language is Hungarian and I hated and resisted the language I was forced to learn (Russian). I arrived in England at the age of 15 and being thrown in at the deep end I had to learn English, as well as French and Latin for O-levels together with Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry and Geography. I read a lot and I am perfectly at home in English. I only think in Hungarian when I am in that country.
I totally agree with Daniel that the best way to learn is reading and listening and having conversations with a native language teacher, who can correct my mistakes. The best way to learn is to live in the country and have total immersion. Sadly for me it is not possible. So I just use what I can from the website, the easy reading books, the native teachers and I also belong to a group at the local University of the Third Age (U3A) where we try to speak, read and listen in Italian as much as we can.
John says
Talk to any group of native (in my case English speakers) for a while and you’re sure to experience frequent abuse of the rules of grammar, wrong tenses, confusion of adverbs and adjectives (Americans seem particularly fond of this: “I’m good” when they mean “Im well”; “You did great”, etc.), use of present tense for past and future events… The point being that it makes very little difference to understanding what they mean… I’m sure the average Italian will forgive or even overlook my occasional grammatical blunder, it may even make them smile, and at least it shows I’m trying, rather than simply shouting in English. Of course I hope to improve, but life is short.
JoAnn says
I am 75, monolingual and struggled horribly in a typical “grammar is vital” class of 12 students and a native Italian teacher. I gave up. Since then reading and listening is the only “study” I do. Now on to attempting to speak with a native speaker. Thank you for your article, Daniel.
Mike McIntyre says
I DO find the Italian grammar, and the loads of “irregularities” throughout the language frustrating. That’s one reason I don’t pay attention to learning the grammar “rules.” The other reason is that, as Daniel says, the more I use it — speak, read, listen — the more I am able to effectively speak, read, listen. And by effectively I mean, “do I, mostly, understand it and do other people, mostly, understand what I speak or write. I use loads of stuff from the Club for reading and listening and have a native Italian teacher who I meet with (er, with whom I meet, for you purists) online. Does she teach me grammar? Well, define ‘teach.’ If you mean , does she occasionally explain something? Yes. Does she sometimes send me a simplified explanation of a grammar point for me to read? VERY occasionally (and if she doesn’t I know the Club page has the same material) . Does she write something that uses certain new or problematic tenses so that I have to read and try to understand material in that tense? Very often! Does she ask me to write back focusing on that tense? Absolutely! Does she point out every grammar mistake I make? Absolutely not! Does she point out EVERY time I get the gender wrong? No, but just enough to get me to pay a bit more attention that THAT part of the grammar.. I’m getting taught Italian grammar without every having a class on the rules of it. I also talk to native Italians through a site called Conversation Exchange (HIGHLY recommend: speak with Italians who want to improve their English while you improve your Italian — and it is FREE). In none of those conversations do we pay much attention, if any, to grammar and yet, we communicate, laugh and make progress. So, without studying grammar I’m learning it (without realizing it). AND, after five years of this I was also able to read Giulia’s entire Italian response and only had to guess on one word (but I didn’t look it up, Daniel;)
Giulia says
Ciao Mike! Anch’io uso Conversation Exchange e l’ho trovato molto utile, infatti proprio ieri ho avuto una conversazione. Mi piace di poter chiacchierare in italiano sulla vita quotidiana senza concentrarsi sulla grammatica e usandolo semplicemente. Questo è sicuramente un apprendimento reale.
Mike McIntyre says
Grazie, Giulia. Mi piace molto Conversation Exchange. Molte settimane chiacchiero con 3 amici italiani – 30 minuti in italiano e 30 minuti in inglese (ovviamente sono in pensione). È molto utile perché parliamo di una grande varietà di argomenti – cibo, politica, religione, famiglia, lavoro e molti altri – quindi il mio vocabolario e il mio conforto su come usare i tempi verbali crescono, ogni settimana.
Giulia says
Complimenti! Continua così.
James J Pezzulo says
I taught languages for 35 years, and I can totally agree with everything you have written.
Meredith Mancini says
Hi Dan, I do like reading your articles and they always make me feel “not quite useless”. I have been learning Italian since I was 60. I am now 70 and still going. As much as grammar sometimes brings me out in hives, I know that grammar is an essential bilding block for any language but I don’t worry if I am not perfect (which I am not by any means). I listen to podcasts in Itallian and read very simple books (level B1) and find both very helpful. I also use your website to do grammar exercises. I am not a fan of prepositions or reflexive verbs but don’t lose sleep over them. The fact that I can go to Italy and make myself understood and, for the most part, can understand the reply, as long as it isn’t too wordy, I am a happy camper. I am Australian and I do take seriosuuly pronounciation. When I hear my fellow countrymen speaking Italian with an Aussie accent, my ears bleed but that’s just me. My first Italian teacher was a stickler for pronounciation and I am grateful to her for that. I am part of a very small group of native speakers (3) who get together once a week with a lovely Italian lady, and speak Italian, as best as we can, while she corrects us when needed and throws in grammar exercises here and there. We are all different and learn at different rates. I used to bang my head against the wall, but no longer bother to do that because I accept that I will never be fluent and in my case, I will never need to be. Keep your articles coming. They make me laugh and I find your advice to be very positve. Thank you and please excuse all my English grammatical errors. 🙂
Lauren says
I truly believe that people who vehemently disagree with this article are not fluent in a second language. This advice was spot on! In my experience achieving native level fluency (not in Italian, but in Japanese), grammar was important but by no means more important than any other language related skill like speaking, reading, writing, etc. If you focus on studying SOLELY grammar, especially in the beginning of your language journey, it won’t lead to fluency or even the ability to have basic conversation. To succeed, you need to remember that grammar/written composition and speaking/verbal communication are like separate muscles in the body, you need to train them both! I’ve met people who can write eloquent essays, but can’t speak even at a basic conversational level. Everyone is different, so take what works for you and leave what doesn’t! But remember that grammar and textbook focused learning will not always give you the outcome you’re hoping for.
Yvonne says
This is an argument that doesn’t just apply to learning a ‘foreign’ language. There’s a whole generation here for whom English
Grammar is a total mystery. It was replaced by ‘functional grammar’ which I never quite understood myself, except kids didn’t know a noun from an adjective from an adverb … Seems to be bouncing back now, but can these different generations communicate with each other happily and successfully? Of course. Personally, I don’t find traditional grammar too difficult. In fact, it is interesting. However, that has not made me a better communicator than others who find grammar a pain.
April Munday says
I wasn’t going to take part in this discussion until I read yesterday’s email. It was the bit about poor language teaching in schools that made me take the plunge. French is my second language and my French teacher at school was amazing. We did do grammar, but we wrote and we read and we spoke and we did dictation and we listened and she corrected. She was so good that, with a little bit of help from a dictionary, I was able to communicate with real French people on a school trip a year or so after I started learning French. It didn’t hurt that she was French, but what really helped was her passion and her willingness to give more to her pupils. She was also the scariest teacher I’ve ever had.
I still enjoy grammar, but I also know that it’s not everything. Mostly I read and listen, both of which are also fun.
Dr John A Milne says
I had the misfortune of being taught French in school the old fashioned way. Despite getting good passes in all my other subjects I struggled with French, only scraping a pass after 5 years in “O” Grade French. This was important as I needed this pass to get into medical school which I subsequently did and qualified.
Move on in years and I enrolled in an evening class to learn Italian. After approximately 6 months of 1 evening per week teaching by the new method I passed the equivalent to the old “O” Grade exam with an A pass and the following year a B pass in the Higher Grade exam. In the evening class we had a native Italian speaker teaching and she did a bit of grammar to start using “Living Italian” textbook before she had an open conversation session. We were given some work to produce at home before the next class but her method of teaching was motivational in contrast to the dull old-school method.
I am in complete agreement with your advice Daniel.
I would add that my wife lived in Italy for a few years before we met, and she does speak excellent Italian. That has also increased my motivation to improve my Italian.