In the second half of May 2020 we’re reading Luigi Pirandello’s parable of identity ‘Uno, nessuno e centomila’. Share your progress / Join the discussion by scrolling down to the bottom of this page and leaving a comment on this page – comments will be pre-moderated – your email address will not be published or used for any other purpose.
Resources
For people who want to read the original, it’s available free online! The free .pdf I found has 200 pages in a nice large font, so should be manageable in a couple of weeks. Or, if you want a more traditional typeface and layout, there’s https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Uno,_nessuno_e_centomila
If you find other versions or resources you think should be listed here, just email.
For those who like to listen, there’s a RAI audio version in twenty episodes.
If the original’s beyond your current level in Italian, why not buy our, very short and simplified, ‘easy reader’ ebook, which also has audio. Click here to view it in our online shop. Please download and read/listen to the free sample chapter before you buy the full version – that way you’ll know that ours is a fraction of the length of the original, which is of course deliberate.
Original or ‘easy reader’, the fun of a book club lies in being able to share your progress with other people, rather than reading alone in your lockdown quarters.
Share your opinions and ideas by scrolling down and completing the comment form.
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Daniel says
Buondì book-clubbers. So here we are again!
I admit, I found it rather hard to get down to Pinocchio, so this time I’m setting myself targets:
1.) read eaach weekday (optionally at weekends)
2.) complete approximately 20 pages each day (the version I have has a large font)
3.) finish in ten days, or fourteen if we include the non-reading weekend days
I did something similar with ‘Il nome della rosa’ last month, and that was a lot longer. Once I’d gotten into the story, and the reading routine, it wasn’t hard to make space in my day for it, and in fact I finished sooner than I’d expected.
So we’ll see. But feel free to ask me which page I’m up to – psychologists say that committing to a goal in public makes you more likely to stick to it. Let’s see if that’s true!
Buona lettura, allora.
Susan Vinther says
I’m excited to see the new book for reading together. I started my Italian journey with you all only a couple of weeks ago and followed some of your mini book club comments hoping that one day I could join in…..the resources for the Pirandello book look and sound excellent and I’ve just now ordered my easy reader so here goes…the level is going to be challenging , but time is something I do have in lockdown.
Laura says
I, too, am excited to have another book we can read together! I just finished the first chapter of the easy reader! Daniel, your writers do an amazing job of summarizing the story, while at the same time maintaining the essence of the original manuscript. (I think “essence” is the word I’m looking for! My literary vocabulary is failing me this morning!)
I will be reading the original version as well, although it’s very advanced for me! The twenty page a day goal you’ve set for yourself is very helpful to me, also. I’ve already “read” 6 or 7 pages in the original, if you can call what I’m doing reading, as I’m only capturing 20-30% of the text without dictionary usage! 🤔 But I trust that I’ll be doing some learning in the process, and that it will be worth the effort! You keep assuring us of this. Although I do secretly wonder if it’s really true that my reading (senza dizionario) will improve even if I’m only able to understand 30% of the text? Or is the original book something that I shouldn’t even attempt yet at my level? Any words of encouragement?
On a side note, while reading the information about the author in the easy reader, I found the struggles of his wife very sad. One could see how this could have strongly influenced his writings.
Daniel says
Although I do secretly wonder if it’s really true that my reading (senza dizionario) will improve even if I’m only able to understand 30% of the text? Any words of encouragement?
– you know Spanish to an advanced level, therefore I don’t see why you can’t be reading in Italian, or French if you choose
– you’ve been reading Italian for a while now, so have some experience with it. It’s likely you’re already doing it better, though you may now be more ambitious, so more dissatisfied with what you can do than you were at the start. That’s human nature…
– how are you evaluating that you understand 20-30%? Bet it’s not very scientific, and probably overly modest. But how much do you think you would need to understand, using your own system of measurement, to follow the story? 50%? 75%? 90%? Whichever number you choose, there’d still be a part that you wouldn’t know, right? Life is like that.
I know loads of people who have a fairly advanced knowledge of Italian, but don’t ever read it because it’s ‘harder’ or because they ‘have to spend so much time looking up the words they don’t know so they are sure they have understood correctly’.
And I know other people who never had the advantages of months or years of formal Italian classes, or even any, but have learnt anyway. The world is full of them, and I’m a one!
In the end though, Laura, how much would you be learning if you weren’t reading? If you have some better way to use your time, then you should consider doing that instead, or as well.
My encouragement of club members to read (and listen) more, a lot more, is basically because that’s what people don’t do. They know how to study grammar and learn words, but it only gets them so far.
IF they would read, they would get lots of context and examples, which can’t help but support the more traditional studying. But mostly they don’t, which is a shame.
Thanks for all your contributions lately! I bet there are plenty of people admiring your attitude and the progress you’ve made.
Susan Vinther says
My daughter is studying this period of thought and literature in Europe and , when I said I was going to read some Pirandello, she said ‘his plays are very dark’, so it seems that his personal difficulties could be part of the reason, though there are doubtless varying degrees of ‘darkness’ in his work.
Like Laura I am not understanding a great deal of the original. It’s my first foray into a literary work and one of the barriers to comprehension is the unfamiliar verb forms. I’ve looked up a couple of verbs where I can deduce the infinitive , and the as yet unfamiliar tense seems to be the ‘passato remoto’ , so I will now go to the excellent section on verbs in your huge grammar section, Daniel, and check this out.
Daniel says
The passato remoto is so hard, it’s easy! Everyone freaks out at first, but it’s so easy to see what it is, and basically just the opposite of what you’d expect, that reading it is not an issue. You’ll see…
Susan Vinther says
well with these words of reassurance I will set about my day’s reading with great positivity !
Steph says
Amazon has a kindle version of this book for $.99. Also, there is a free app people might be interested in called LibriVox which has audio versions of books in the public domaine in multiple languages. I know a lot of people in this group like to listen and read at the same time. You will probably appreciate this app
Steph
minou says
Buongiorno Daniel e BCr’s (book clubbers)!
(prima) Grazie a dio: il “Easy Reader” è qui! Dolce continuare il tema del “naso”, ma non sono mai stato un lettore entusiasta del Pirandello in inglese (molto noioso per me). E poi, non sorpresa, lo stesso effetto per me in italiano. Ho letto circa 20 pagine; poi ho provato “skimming” molte pagine; finalmente ‘I quit’ e bravo! trovato EasyReader ora disponibile. Quindi, grazie a te (e dio) per il Easy Reader!!!!
(adesso) Daniel, ho letto la tua idea: set a daily [do-able] goal. Penso che questa lavorara (? will work) bene per me, tho i won’t get thru the whole book — which is ok. Questa mi farà leggere e ascoltare. Thank you.
Daniel says
Penso che questa lavorara (? will work) bene per me
funzionerà
to work = lavorare (like a dog)
to work = funzionare (functions as you hope)
minou says
Grazie mille!
Mary says
Hi fellow Book Clubbers. I’m really pleased to be starting another journey with you.
Thank you Daniel. Around twenty pages a day is a really helpful target. Two weeks without the book club and I was already slipping back into my old habits of just reading a bit here and there.
I really enjoy Pirandello’s different way of looking at life….no more putting it off then…..need to get started…..
Buona lettura a tutti!
Krista Lamoreaux says
Anch’io sono entusiasta di iniziare!
Thanks for giving us another way to improve our italiano.
Kathy says
Ciao a tutti! Grazie, Daniel, per un’altro opportunità di participare in un circolo di lettura. Questa volta io ci sto. (Eco era troppo da pensare… ancora lavoro!) Spero che posso stare a passo (keep up?) con il Club. Il mio piano è di ascoltare a lavoro e leggere a casa, primo di tutto (oggi) il Easy Reader, poi comincerò l’originale. Incrocio le dita!
Lynne F says
Ciao a tutti. Good to be going again with a new book. Although the texts are challenging and there are many new words I am resisting using a dictionary. However I am understanding more than I imagined and recognising different tenses, grammar rules and phrases. Looking forward to reading and sharing comments with other book clubbers.
Daniel says
It isn’t easy, Lynne. And in particular, the introspective parts. But persevere – there are sections that just fly by! And once you get to know the protagonist and his concerns, it suddenly seems less of a trial.
Jane Croucher says
Argggg, third time lucky! My best intentions flew out of the window with the other books, so I will make sure I keep up your habit of reading every day this time!!!! I’m looking forward to it!
Daniel says
Now I’m sure my mother used to berate me with “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”, Jane… Routine is the thing. Achievable targets, achieved, so motivated to continue.
Daniel says
OK, so I did my 20 pages yesterday (Monday) and I’ve done 10 today, with the coffee pot brewing and a couple of hours still until bed time.
Thirty pages in on my edition that has 200, it’s definitely getting easier. It’s shorter than ‘Il nome della rosa’ and much more coherent and modern than ‘Pinocchio’.
Quindi, forza coraggio!
Simeon Underwood says
Ciao Daniel. Thanks once again for setting this up. I started it in advance, and am now just about halfway through. It is a fascinating and enjoyable read. The narrative style is very different from the Eco — very oral/colloquial and in your face. Following the train of thought isn’t always easy. But it is always thought-provoking and challenging — is he right ? is he mad ? — and often funny; and at the point I have reached the narrative is starting to come to the fore over the philosophy/psychoanalysis (if that is what it is …).
Daniel says
Ciao Simeon
I have reached the narrative is starting to come to the fore over the philosophy/psychoanalysis (if that is what it is …)
Yes, it usually does, if you’re willing to persevere. I’m at about p.40 now and the Moscarda character is starting to grow on me, especially his pithy comments about wives…
Susan Vinther says
It’s really encouraging to read others’ comments about the book getting easier, the characters making pithy comments etc – please keep them coming , as encouragement is needed! For my part , I am finding that I do get more from the book if I look up the occasional word that gets repeated such as ‘stizza’ . Your list of the passato remoto irregular forms is also indispensable because who would have known that ‘fu’ is from ‘essere’ (very like the French in fact).
Grazie
Daniel says
See today’s article for yet further encouragement to NOT look stuff up, Susan. Or, later, you will be telling us that the book is too difficult so you decided to quit, etc. Perhaps not, but many people do.
Passato remoto forms? If you know the subject and can guess at what the verb should mean from the context, how difficult can they be?
How to ‘know’ what new words ‘mean’ WITHOUT a dictionary
Plus, the more of them you see in an understandable context, the more obvious it will be what they refer to. See ‘fu’ once and be puzzled. See it six times and there’s no way you could not know what it meant.
Susan Vinther says
I’ve read today’s article and will put the dictionary aside , along with the list of verbs!
Daniel says
Brava! Prova, almeno.
Susan Vinther says
ho provato…….funziona abbastanza bene !
Rachel Belgrave says
Thanks again Daniel for this next title in the mini book club. I didn’t manage Pinnochio- life intervened but I’m starting on ‘Uno, nessuno .. Shall have to speed up to keep up with your 10 pages a day ! Very clear goal ! And challenging.
Daniel says
20 pages a day is my goal, Rachel. But go at your own pace. Some parts of this story are hard-going, others just whizz by!
Laura says
Daniel, this is from your previous comment:
“Thirty pages in on my edition that has 200, it’s definitely getting easier. It’s shorter than ‘Il nome della rosa’ and much more coherent and modern than Pinocchio.”
I have an odd question! I’m wondering if maybe the reason I found Pinocchio easier to read is because the colloquial/less modern style was more similar to Spanish?!! All along I kept thinking, “Wow, this is amazingly like reading Spanish!” I was thinking I had turned into a reading genius in Italian! Lol Then I started Uno and realized I wasn’t at quite the level I thought! Although I do agree with your previous comment that I am making progress, as the easy readers are much easier for me to understand at first glance than at the beginning of my participation in Il nome.
I also liked your advice about doing much more listening and reading along with formal study. I think I’m also going to start journaling a little in Italian each day, in preparation for my book, Learning Italian in the Time of Covid (Imparare l’italiano ai tempi di Covid)!!! 😜
By the way, thank you for the compliment on my progress! It helps me move forward with hope!
P.S. I agree with what Susan said about the verb tenses holding back her comprehension a bit. That seems to be one of my issues, as well. When I read a sentence, I’m recognizing words but have a hard time figuring out who’s doing or saying something to who! I guess I also might need to study personal pronouns!
Daniel says
I agree with what Susan said about the verb tenses holding back her comprehension a bit
English speakers are always obsessed with tenses because English has so many and the difference between them always matters, whereas Italians use just a handful and it’s the reader/listener who has to figure out what is meant from the context.
The problem with Italian (and Spanish) is the conjugation of the verb rather than the tense itself. So when you’re reading, assuming you’re doing so effectively, then it should be easy to figure out from the context who is doing what to whome and approximately when, even (especially?) if you are unfamilar with the conjugations.
If it’s not easy, the problem is your approach to reading, not your knowledge of grammar, I promise.
Clearly that’s not at all true for speaking and writing, when you do actually need to conjugate the verbs in an appropriate tense. But that’s an entirely different problem.
Laura says
Hmmm… How would I change my approach to reading in order to help myself? Maybe I should just be content reading the easy reader, where I recognize most of the words? When you gave your example from Pinocchio where there were 2 or 3 words per page that you didn’t recognize, my count of unknown words per page for the original version of Uno is about 15-35 or more! Aghhhhh!
Although I did find an English translation of Uno online and when I read the Italian and English side by side, (starting with what I can figure out in Italian, then reading the same paragraph or 2 in English, and then going back to the Italian), my comprehension of the Italian sentence structure is much better and I’m learning new words.
I would just stick with the Easy Reader, but the author has some really interesting and funny observations, and so I don’t want to miss them — hence I want to push through the original instead of only reading the easy reader!
Any suggestions?
Daniel says
When you gave your example from Pinocchio where there were 2 or 3 words per page that you didn’t recognize
No, that’s wrong. There were many words I didn’t know, but most of them were irrelevant, for example the various colors of the ‘ciuchinni’ in the part I quoted. With this type of text, there’s always a mass of stuff you don’t know, even in English literary textss, if you look carefully – we’re just used to ignoring them. You have to learn to do the same and just keep reading. The ‘ciuchinni’ example was given because that word is actually relevant, important and frequent in the story – but also easy to figure out.
You ask for suggestions, Laura.
I’d suggest analysing what is or is not working for you, in your situation, in an objective way. Then optimising your approach based on your conclusions.
If you’re happier with the graded reader, or going back and studying Italian from scratch, then do that. If you want to fast-track your learning by reading authentic texts (most people don’t), then you’ll need to recognise the challenges as well as the benefits, and develop appropriate strategies – don’t look up words, keep reading, assess understanding at a ‘macro’ not a ‘micro’ level, and so on.
Susan Vinther says
Laura, it sounds as though we are very much at the same level with Italian and ,whilst you know Spanish intimately, I know French. Today I made myself do as Daniel said and refrain from looking things up. I first re-read the Easy reader which went very quickly ( and listened at the same time to the soundcloud recording). I then turned to the original and let my eyes just flow over the words , understanding only pretty vaguely what they mean. It was a very different experience from reading with understanding, but I found I was getting enough to know where Moscarda is, if he is musing about himself and his identity or if he is reminiscing about being in his childhood home. It was strange – a sense of flow took over , and I found that a fondness for the language replaced the previous frustrations. I think it made me more confident as a learner, which is quite contradictory isn’t it? the ‘proof’…., when I read Daniel’s ‘brava..prova’ comment AFTER this reading experience, I found myself replying straight away and quite naturally in Italian without thinking about it for once!! This is a bit long, but I hope it’s encouraging .(I did look up the word zanzariera as even after many appearances I could not think for the life of me what it was, but I think that was ok as it was a small interruption …..)
Laura says
Thank you for the good advice! I was able to read the last two sections of chapter 1 — Filo d’aria and E dunque? — by myself in Italian (senza l’aiuto del dizionario e senza l’aiuto della versione in inglese) and I definitely achieved a level of macro understanding! I think the mistake I was making before was that I was trying to analyze every word in a sentence in the order it appeared as I read. But as I kept reading and didn’t focus on understanding each sentence completely, something magical happened and I was able to get the gist of the author’s thinking during his long Internal monologue as he stares at himself in the mirror! (I must admit I was a little surprised that when the author sneezed, he didn’t take his musings to another level where he begins to believe that even his body has a life if it’s own over which he has no control and cannot completely understand or know! Lol)
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to our questions, and thank you for all your efforts to help us! What’s amazing to me is that even though you don’t have to take so much time to help us, you do it anyway. I think in speaking for myself, I can also speak for the others in our group and say that we are really grateful for all you do for us!
Daniel says
I think the mistake I was making before was that I was trying to analyze every word in a sentence in the order it appeared as I read. But as I kept reading and didn’t focus on understanding each sentence completely, something magical happened and I was able to get the gist of the author’s thinking during his long Internal monologue as he stares at himself in the mirror!
Sounds like you’re getting the idea, Laura! Be aware that sometimes there’ll be long tracts which you won’t get much or anything from. I’m sure that’s also true when we read in our mother tongues, too. In any case though, authors tend to say the same things over and over, perhaps in different ways, so understanding tends to ‘grow’ as you progress through the text.
Anyone who read ‘Il nome della rosa’ in the original with us will have seen precisely that happening with all the church history, Franciscan order off-shoots, heretics etc. which when first introduced were hard and, to me, boring but became relevant and familiar as the story progressed. I’m on p.75 now of ‘Uno…’ and can see the same effect – what the author is trying to say through his character seems abstruse at first, but then Pirandello ‘shows’ us what he means again and again as the plot develops. I’m assuming that the stuff I could barely be bothered with in the early chapters will be illustrated during the remainder of the story, which in fact seems to be happening.
Students assume ‘meaning’ lies in a word, or phrase, or sentence, or paragraph or chapter. But arguably the author of a novel has an entire book to get across what might just be one central idea, or a few themes interwoven: ‘Il nome della rosa’ – knowledge is dangerous and people are self-interested / ‘Uno, nessuno e centomila’ – how we see ourselves is not how others see us (and if you seize control of how others see you to modify their perceptions, you’ll cause havoc, which you might in any case relish…)
Thanks for the positive feedback, by the way!
Angela says
Daniel, the cost of your books is displayed in pounds. And once I get to the cart, I cannot figure out how to pay. How can I buy your books in American dollars? What kinds of payment do you accept? PayPal?
Thank you! I have only been here fur a few weeks and am already enlightened.
Daniel says
Ciao Angela,
We only price in British pounds. Your credit card will convert the payment into USD, at a rate which is favourable to them and not to you. Yesterday’s exchange rate was 1.22 USD = 1 GBP. If you asssume that your caredit company will charge you something like 1.4 or 1.5 and pocket the difference, then that’ll be about right. So a £5.99 ebook might cost you up to $9 at current rates but shouldn’t be more.
Payment options are explained in the shop’s FAQ, which frustratingly no one ever looks at: https://easyreaders.org/faq/ If you have and use an Amazon account, then that’s the simplest way – they process payments on our behalf and take a commission. There’s an Amazon logo in our shop when you get to the payment stage – just click it.
Or Paypal processes card payments for us. It’s explained in the FAQ.
Hope that helps!
Thomas Vanderslice says
Siamo d’accordo Daniele, leggendo senza dizionario si puo procedere rapidamente.. Ho finito libro uno (versione integrale). Trovo Pirandello un po piu difficile di Eco, ma non troppo. Ho gia letto “Il fu Mattia Pascal,” il quale per me era piu divertente.
Daniel says
I thought Eco was hard in parts (when he wanted it to be – it was deliberate) and easy in other parts (the detective story bits). Pirandello’s text is almost manically boring sometimes, which I’m sure is intentional, but then fast and fluid again.
People keep telling me these books are ‘hard’, which of course they are. But so is a lot of English literature for many people – I never touch the stuff, precisely for that reason!
It’s important to keep in mind when part, or all, of a text is ‘hard’ because of the content, or because the author wanted it so, or because it’s just old or in an unfamiliar style.
Almost always, IF you keep reading, it gets easier and faster, though not necessarily any more fun…
minou says
Buongiorno a tutti! Di nuovo, grazie a Daniel per le parole incoraggianti. Adesso, sto leggendo almeno 10 pagine al giorno – e poi [I review them] 2 volte per aiutare la comprensione (Daniel, questa è una buona idea?). E come altri hanno detto, le parti del dialogo sono più facili da capire per me.
Una idea: Sembra che tutti fare bene nelle porzioni di dialogo dei libri. Ho pensato che Ernest Hemingway sarebbe stato un buon autore per il b.club perché (1) amava l’Italia e (2) è a corto di filosofia e pieno di dialoghi ! Ma purtroppo non ho potuto trovare le traduzioni italiane disponibili. Qualche idea qualcuno? ((Sigh. In case that is completely confusing , here it is in english. Many BCrs find dialog portions more accessible (anch’io) and i thought of Ernest Hemingway who both loved Italy and was heavy on dialog. However, i did not succeed in finding readily accessble translations into italian. Anybody else?))
Buona lettura!
Thomas Vanderslice says
How about reading a play (or plays) if reading dialog is more accessible? Forse “Sei personaggi in cerca d’un autore,” o “Enrico IV,” o qualsiasi.
Daniel says
DANIEL’S UPDATE
Three days of reading, twenty pages a day, I’m now at p.60 and it looks like the philosophizing might be ending and the action about to begin. So far my biggest challenge has been to stay awake (literally) during the many introspective parts. I’m planning to read ealier in the day from now on, so as to combat the sleepiness Pirandello has so far been so effective at inducing in me.
That said, the character’s realisation about how he is a different person in his wife’s eyes (one he can’t stand and is jealous of) is very interesting…
Laura says
Reply to Susan V:
Thank you so much for your encouragement! We really are on the same page, figuratively speaking! I woke up very early this morning, and when I read Daniel’s reply to my question about how I could change my approach to reading, I followed his advice, and instead of trying to understand each sentence completely, I just kept on reading even if I didn’t fully understand a sentence, and Voila! I realized I was getting the gist of the Genge’s long Internal monologue in front of the mirror as I read Filo d’aria and E dunque? at the end of Chapter 1. So even though I didn’t have micro understanding of each sentence, I had achieved macro understanding! Hurray!!! Then after I submitted my comment to Daniel’s response, I refreshed the page and saw your comment! Then as I scrolled down to read other comments, I realized that I was even understanding the ones written in Italian better! Bravo to both of us! ❤️
Susan Vinther says
Your comment ‘something magical happened’ hit the nail on the head Laura! a nice kind of magical…. and I now plan to do the reading early in the day. It’s been funny too to read that Daniel was literally fighting against sleep when reading some of the introspective passages. It’s also true that some books in English resist easy reading. I have heard several people say that they just cannot get into Hilary Mantel’s books in spite of their best intentions…..onwards and upwards and thank you to Daniel for pushing us to change the habits of a lifetime and try something new!
minou says
“Struggle Struggle Toil and Trouble” — that quote from somewhere embodies my Pirandello experience. I’ve read through Kafka-esque passages, theatre of the Absurd chapters, and Age of Anxiety sections. Anybody else? I’m now in Part II, capitoli X L’uccellino and XI Rientrando in città. Mi piacciono molto — perché ho capito meglio!! Anche, ciò che Moscardo dice in questi 2 capitoli mi attira — e lui non ripete si molto. Of course, there’s always the probability that i’ve inadequately understood the whole thing too! Nonostante, è una grande sfida!
Thomas (May 20): Buona idea! And a nice way to thread together our reading. Grazie.
minou says
P.S. una domanda: molte parole usano ‘j’. Ad esempio, jeri (ieri ?) Questo è dovuto al siciliano dialetto o qualcos’altro? Grazie, m
Daniel says
I asked my wife about that, Minou, and she said she didn’t know, maybe it was old style? Someone will need to do some research – not me, as I have a busy day ahead.
Simeon Underwood says
This may also be a Sicilian thing. There is a wonderful chocolate shop in Modica called Bon Ajuto.
minou says
OK, Daniel – In risposta alla tua sfida ho fatto delle ricerche sull’uso / derivazione di J in siciliano e in italiano. Ho trovato numerosi articoli interessanti. Pirandello ha scritto la sua tesi [philological] sul dialetto di Agrigento (“Sounds and the Developments of Sounds in the Speech of Craperallis” – see article on Google). I started with P’s thesis and followed other research from there. I learned that the use of J in italian derives from latin along with borrowings from portuguese and spanish. J continued to be widely used through the medieval period. Thereafter, the italian language was unified under the influence of [Dante] Tuscan dialect, but language in Sicily was not so influenced by this nationalization and use of J continued in sicily long after it was replaced by “I” in italy. Bottom line: treat J like “I” wherever you find it in Sicily-Italy.
Chris says
Minou,
Grazie mille per la tua ricerca!
Chris
minou says
P.P.S.: Daniel – mi scusi, ma ho una risposta al tuo commento di 21 maggio, “the character’s realisation about how he is a different person in his wife’s eyes (one he can’t stand and is jealous of)” — reminds me that his wife suffered from “gelosia paranoica” (Easy Reader), so he knew what such a jealousy was. No?
Daniel says
Don’t we all know what jealousy is, Minou? Anyone who’s fallen in love, for example…
One emotion that Moscarda does seem short of though is envy, in that he doesn’t seem to want anything, he lacks the normal drives for success, security, etc. In fact, he’s very nihilistic, don’t you think?
Mary says
Hi Bookclubbers!
(Maybe Moscardi lacks drive and is not envious in the material sense, because he already has everything. He does not have to work to live and already has a certain status in society through no effort of his own. Maybe he does not value success/security because he does not know what it would be like to be without them)
In the beginning I wanted to shout at Moscarda to stop all this gazing at himself in the mirror. I wanted to tell him to go out and just get himself a life! After all why should it matter that people see him in different ways?
But alarm bells started to ring with the start of “Libro Secondo” (I’m reading the Kindle version as well as the Easy Reader). There is Gengè (I’m beginning to feel I know him ) dragging me , poor reader, into his mad world. And of course it is working and I am nodding vigorously in agreement as he says how people don’t understand each other even though they think they are talking the same language.
Where on earth will it all end?…
Daniel says
My mother always used to say “It’ll all end in tears!”, Mary. But the Moscard narrating the story rather implies a more cheerful outcome. He certainly doesn’t tell his tale with regret, does he?
Laura says
“Be aware that sometimes there’ll be long tracts which you won’t get much or anything from.”
Daniel, I think you were preparing me for Chapter 2 when you wrote this! Lol
For me this is a very difficult text! I will read through a chapter in the Italian original, aiming for macro-understanding, then reread the same chapter in the English translation, and find that macro-wise I didn’t really miss much of anything! Even reading through the English is difficult and I’m a native English speaker! I find myself skimming the English version for macro-understanding, as well. I think it’s Vitangelo’s monologue style that gets me. It reminds me of reading Nietzsche’s existential writings in college — that was not easy reading either! (On a side note, I’m now going to do a bit of research on how Vitangelo’s philosophy compares to existentialism.)
So I’m about to embark on Chapter 4 and I’ll see if things get easier! I do find it’s easier to get the gist of things when the author has actual interactions with the other characters. By the way, I love the Easy Reader of Uno! I wish Francesca had been Pirandello’s editor! She makes it possible to understand Vitangelo’s descent into “madness“ without having to enter into it like you do when you read the original!
Once again, thanks for all you do to help us, and I want you to know that even though this text may be difficult in the original for me, I definitely see progress when I realize it’s getting easier and easier every day to understand the Easy Reader and the Easy Italian News and even some articles online written in Italian!
Daniel says
Five days, twenty pages a day, I’m now just past p.100, Laura, and at this approximate half-way point, the pace is quickening!
John says
I “had to” read six characters in search of an author for an Italian class some years ago, and it left me cold. I really couldn’t see the point of it. Let’s hope this story makes more sense!
Daniel says
I’ve spent my life resisting (refusing point-blank to read) ‘difficult’ books, John, so I do sympathise. And ‘Uno…’ is certainly a difficult book. As Laura wrote, it reminds me of difficult texts I read in English at university, decades back.
BUT I’d more or less given up reading ‘easy’ novels, perhaps because there was never much new or challenging in them, and my wife always said she missed me reading (she reads a lot). Now I’ve set myself a daily target of ‘hard’ Pirandello pages to read, I seem to be redisovering the pleasure to be had from books. I still prefer something with a good plot (Il nome della rosa) but I see now that plot is simply a device that authors can employ (or choose not to bother with) when trying to communicate their ideas to the reader.
N.b. This story makes more sense as you progress through it… Early on, it’s pretty weird.
John says
I certainly enjoyed “Il nome della rosa” when I read the English translation a few years back; good plot and interesting setting. I couldn’t find an affordable copy in the original Italian, though so I’m still looking. How about “Il gattopardo” next time?
Daniel says
‘Il gattopardo’ comes highly recommended by my wife and our ‘easy reader’ writer, Francesca. Sadly, it’s still under copyright and copyright is the most important factor in our choice of titles. We have bills to pay, so need to be able to adapt a text (without permission from the long-dead author or his/her heirs) into something we can sell, for those club members who aren’t yet ready to read the original. Hence the rash of ‘hard’ literature… Coming soon we have ‘I Malavoglia’ and ‘I promessi sposi’, both classics of Italian literature and both definitively out of copyright!
Colleen says
oh, Daniel! I would LOVE to be finally encouraged to read I Promessi sposi! I have run across many references to it in my quest to learn Italian. It looked daunting . Now, after Il Nome Della Rosa , Pinocchio, and incomprehensible Pirandello It seems more like a possibility-especially in the Book Club! I am learning quite a bit from your essays on how to learn a language. Thank you1
Daniel says
Stick around, then, Colleen. The plan for June is ‘I Malavoglia’ and ‘La coscienza di Zeno’, both of which are not over-long. Then, at the end of the month, we’ll start on ‘I promessi sposi’, which is two volumes, and leave that running for as long as it takes over the summer. July 6th we’ll have our Summer Sale, and July 13th the start of our FREE 30-part ‘History of the Roman Empire’ series (text + audio), which will hopefully keep everyone busy, and give me a little time off, until around the end of September (and the Autumn Sale…)
Lynne F says
I have opted to read the book at a slightly slower pace over 7 days a week still hoping to finish it in 2 weeks, a comfortable pace with the incentive to keep going. I am not just reading word after word and getting the gist of the story but actually feel i am joining Moscarda as he sets out on his journey to explore his persona. Now that is real progress and not a dictionary in sight
Daniel says
getting the gist of the story but actually feel i am joining Moscarda as he sets out on his journey to explore his persona.
Yes, me too, Lynne! He’s as mad as a hatter of course, but there’s a lot of sense there too.
Mary says
Thanks Daniel. You are right! Moscarda seems quite upbeat in his quest to find his true self.
Phew! What a relief! No need to reach for the box of tissues then!
Laura says
Wow! All these great comments!
I’m excited for Lynne F with all the progress she’s making! As for me, I’m still flipping back and forth between the original in Italian and the English translation, always reading the Italian first to see what I can glean from it, then rereading the passage/section in English, then going back to the Italian that I just read in English, and then continuing on to a new section in Italian! I know it sounds complicated, but I’m actually enjoying it, because I’m starting to really enjoy this book, and I don’t want to miss any of Vitangelo’s musings, which are so very interesting!
One section at the end of Chapter 3 stood out to me in particular, where Vitangelo talks about abandoning an old friend for a new one, and says we are not really abandoning our friend, but that instead “it was yourself that you sent away, the self that you are to your old friend, for the reason that you felt that self to be altogether different from the one that you are, or would like to be, to your new friend.” What profound thoughts the author is capable of expressing so coherently. I suddenly realized that I this is true for me, too, as I have some friends with whom I feel more comfortable sharing very personal details of my life, and others with whom I’m not as comfortable sharing such details, and if I’m always with both sets of friends at once, then I can never talk about anything personal to me! Lol
I also agree with Mary about Chapter 2! “There is Gengè (I’m beginning to feel I know him) dragging me, poor reader, into his mad world.” My comment on Chapter 2 was that I wish Francesca (the author of the Uno easy reader) had been Pirandello’s editor, because she makes it possible to understand Vitangelo’s descent into “madness“ without having to actually enter into it like you do when you read the original! Chapter 2 and 3 contain some intense philosophizing!
In response to John’s comment, I would say to hang in there, because plot and philosophy start coming together in Chapter 4! And it is a very interesting, thought-provoking plot!
Daniel, I also can identify with your comment about how you had stopped reading due to the conventionality and predictability of the stories. As you put it, “never much new or challenging in them.” I, too, had pretty much stopped reading books for a while, maybe subconsciously for the same reason. I did read some biographies and autobiographies here and there. (In fact a year or so ago I read one by an Italian veterinarian who now runs a wildlife rescue dedicated to saving hedgehogs! It’s called A Handful of Happiness by Massimo Vacchetta. Of course I read it in English, as I just started learning Italian in mid-March of this year during the lockdown! I might have to purchase a copy in Italian now…)
Anyway, I love this book club, and I love reading everyone’s comments! I feel like my brain is reawakening as I’m starting to think about things I never thought about before and as an added benefit, I’m learning more Italian!
Mille grazie a tutti per rendere il nostro club così divertente!
Lynne F says
Thanks Laura, ‘I’M EXCITED FOR LYNNE F WITH ALL THE PROGRESS ” I feel pretty excited myself. Thinking back to my days as an early years teacher, the joy when a 4 year old read a word then a sentence for the first time, they probably understood very little, that came later. On that scale i am probably about 6 years old 🙂 After reading Pinocchio in Italian i then read the English version, rather than flipping between one and the other, Maybe worth a try. .
Daniel says
After reading Pinocchio in Italian i then read the English version, rather than flipping between one and the other, Maybe worth a try. .
And my tuppenth worth – personally I think both approaches are unhelpful as they encourage ‘understanding everything’ and cannot help but mean you will be constantly remined of the limitations of your Italian reading comprehension. Ditto with watching a film in Italian that you’ve already seen in English – a foolish strategy that inevitably leads to disappointment (“But it’s much HARDER!”).
By the way, I’m single, five-foot two, dangerously obsese according to the family physician, and also very shy about talking to girls. Fortunately, my best friend is a handsome guy, a foot taller than me, drives a Ferrari and dresses like Tom Cruise in Rain Man (remmber that?) Every Saturday night he takes me out with him. He has no trouble attracting women, of course. (I still haven’t got a girlfriend though… Wonder why?)
Laura says
Daniel,
You’ve given me another good laugh today with your example of the 5’2” man and his good looking friend! And I do get your point. But I do want to say that I couldn’t resist flipping between the Italian and the English, because at my level, I’d only be able to understand bits and pieces of the original here and there, and I love this book so much that I want to know everything that’s going on in the author’s head (although I couldn’t honestly say that I loved the original during Chapter 2! Not even in English! Lol)
So I’ve been doing a side by side reading. I guess I have no willpower! But I do see myself improving my Italian day by day. I struggled through the beginning chapters of the easy reader of Il Nome, and now can read the Pinocchio and Uno easy readers and the Easy Italian News with so much more clarity and comprehension.
I guess in our next book, I’ll try to have more restraint, because I know your advice is good advice!
Lynne F says
Laura you certainly have willpower as you are persevering with reading in Italian. I agree with Daniel both approaches have their merits. It is a case of doing what you find most useful at the time to achieve your goal. It is good to hear that you are making progress after all that is the goal of us all. 🙂
minou says
Buongiorno a tutti! So much to say about this sfida — from language learning to philosophy/psychology!! So, i’ll start w/ language learning: Much of P’s language is beyond me and i do a lot of skimming. i have not had a “magic moment” of ease in reading as noted by other BClubbers, povero me. Nonostante, i continue to read with great interest — due to this community of readers. Thank you!
On to reflections on content. From the first, this fellow seemed in trouble, e.g., his lack of consciousness such that the realization of some minor physical defects derailed him so easily. And the repetition – which I think served to drive him deeper and deeper in a vortex. Early in the book I felt i was witnessing a newborn consciousness struggling to be born. Later, as his perception fractured, it seemed more that madness was driving him (‘the center couldn’t hold’ a la Yeats) and so then self destruction, annihilation. Daniel you brought up Nihilism. i didn’t know much about nihilism beyond that the copyright belongs to Nietzche so i read a bit about it: Yes, i see your point! Also, as i wrote in a previous post, early on in the book i was reminded of Kafka (existentialism came later than P; maybe he anticipated it) and of the Absurd, etcetc. I lately read that P became a card carrying fascist later in life — all those “-isms” in one!
So i’m reading feverishly to see where our mosca lands! Buona lettura!
(By the way, Calvino Italo, was nominated for Nobel — he was that great! (association due to P was awarded same)
Laura says
Minou,
Don’t feel bad! I just had that one “magic” moment at the end of Chapter 1! I keep hoping for another magical moment as I continue on, but haven’t had another yet, although there’s been a paragraph or two here and there at different parts of the story that I’ve understood completely! I guess those could be mini-magic moments! The end of Chapter 1 must have been a simpler part of the text! Or maybe my brain functions better at 5 in the morning, which is when I finished Chapter 1! Lol
Daniel says
Magic is relative, and it’s human nature to always want more. Now you can ‘sort of’ read, which isn’t good enough. Before you couldn’t hardly read at all, which wasn’t good enough. In six months, or twenty years, it’ll still be harder than reading in your mother tongue, which won’t be good enough. See? The trick is to take a step back occasionally and try something that you know is ‘easier’, so as to get the correct perspective on how far you’ve come. People reading/struggling with ‘Uno…’ could take a look at the sample chapter for our easy reader version, which is definitively, undisputably easier than Pirandello’s orginal. Or if you’re reading the ‘easy’ reader version, which is B2, then go browse sample chapters for texts (there are loads on our Catalog page) which are a couple of levels lower. They should be laughably simple for you by comparison. Then give yourself a pat on the back, and maybe consider getting something like “It’s human nature to be dissatisfied and so want more” tattooed someplace where you’ll see it every day (maybe on your husband or wife if you’re squeamish about needles) so as to avoid becoming mired in unnecessary despair in future.
Laura says
Point taken! 👍
But seriously, I think I’ve progressed a lot in 2 months! It’s been nice to learn that at 54 my brain is still capable of learning and retaining new information! But I just fell in love with this book and its protagonist and couldn’t help myself doing the side by side reading. (Actually I guess I could have restrained myself!) I do vow to do better at following your advice with the next book. Being that the next one is 500 and some pages long, I’ll probably just purchase the Easy Reader, and some other easy readers as well!
Daniel says
My copy of ‘I Malavoglia’, free from a supermarket and not yet opened, is 285 pages. ‘I promessi sposi’ is longer, two whole volumes of it. But Italian kids (including mine) have to read it at school, so I guess I could too.
Laura says
I haven’t been on my Facebook account for a week, as I was busy reading our book, but.after logging on this morning and looking at all the ads that pop up, apparently we live in a world where people are obsessed with the way others perceive them — the centomila! I knew this before, but today it really struck me how our culture tends to focus so much on the superficial.
I also want to comment that though I think Vitangelo’s internal monologues are often “maddening” as he analyzes everything to the nth degree, as I continue to read I find him very sane and making some very profound realizations.
Daniel says
Have you got to the point where he visits his bank, Laura? At this point I’m thinking, nope, the guy’s totally nuts…
Chris says
Late to the party ! I had a libro di gialli that I had been reading for an age that I wanted to finish. Il Nome e Pinocchio had delayed it.
I took a look at the original Uno, nessuno e centamilla and thought it beyond me. However , after 2 recent articles from Daniel and checking out the easy reader free chapter I decided to go BIG! I’m probably an A2 but here goes with a B2, Easy reader purchased too! In bocca a lupo a tutti!
Daniel says
It might be tough at first, Chris, but remember what Dory says: Just keep swimming!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hkn-LSh7es
Chris says
Daniel,
Esattamente!
Mi hai fatto ridere con il suo video!
Grazie 😊
Simeon says
I finished the book last night. I found the last 50 pages really impressive/exciting/powerful/moving, and, in my view at least, they make the slog through the interior monologues worth the effort — in fact, going a bit further, the last 50 pages wouldn’t make much sense without the preceding interior monologues. The book is quite unlike anything I have read before. For me it lives up to its reputation as a masterpiece: but unlike some other masterpieces, it’s quite perturbing, and asks us disconcerting questions about how we live.
Even in the difficult and even irritating interior monologues, one thing I liked was the way the basic idea kept developing and changing. So he isn’t just saying the same thing over and over again. I was particularly taken with the passage where he applies the basic idea to the conversations we have with other people (libro secondo, IV): “Abbiamo usato, io e voi, la stessa lingua, le stesse parole. Ma che colpa abbiamo, io e voi, se le parole, per se, sono vuote ? … E voi le riempite del senso vostro, nel dirmele; e io, nell’accoglierle, inevitablmente, le riempio del senso mio. Abbiamo creduto d’intenderci; non ci siamo intesi affato.”
Daniel says
I was particularly taken with the passage where he applies the basic idea to the conversations we have with other people
Yes, I noted that passage too, Simeon. Something to think about, huh?
I’m glad you enjoyed the book – but you’re way ahead of me! I’ve had a hectic week and stalled at about p.110. I must get on with it this evening as we have ‘I Malavoglia’ coming soon… You’ll have a head start on all of us with that one, assuming you haven’t read it already.
Laura says
I remember studying a technique called (I think) reflective listening. It involves repeating back to a person what you think that person said, and if the person agrees what you repeated was his/her intent, then you move forward with your response. This technique was especially good for people having conflicts. Sounds like it might come in handy when having normal conversations, too?!!
Laura says
To minou:
I just read your comment from May 22. For some reason I had missed it, and it gave me a good belly laugh today! So then I had to look up where that quote came from, as it was familiar to me, too.
Here it is:
Song of the Witches: “Double, double toil and trouble”
BY WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE
(from Macbeth)
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake…
Although personally I like your version better in regards to reading those first few chapters of Uno!!!!! Struggle Struggle Toil and Trouble really sums it up well for me too!
minou says
buonasera o buongiorno a tutti. grazie a tutti per le buone idee – piene di aiuto e risate! torno a scrivere di più in italiano. buona fortuna con la comprensione! ma certamente i commenti saranno più semplici
Laura – ma, certo! the “adapted” quote è delle tre streghe! e, anch’io ho letto il libro dei ricci di M. Vacchetta. buona idea leggerlo in italiano! l’ho cercato oggi — l’autore ha uno libro per kids dai 8+ anni. il titolo è Ninna, il piccolo riccio con un grande cuore. Ho letto un esempio – molto più semplice (more accessible) della versione per adulti. disponibile e-book
Simeon: sto aspettando di leggere la tua nota del 24 maggio perché sono nel libro 7, capitolo 3 (La rivoltella …).
Daniel: grazie per the reality check sopra: “…It’s human nature to be dissatisfied and so want more.”.. so: i’ll read stuff that formerly i found difficult, pat myself on the back and, if i don’t follow your tattoo recommendation, i will at least post it in big letters “someplace where [i’ll] see it every day.” thanx!
Laura says
Minou,
la tua scrittura in italiano è eccellente, questo proveniente da chi difficilmente può scrivere in italiano. Di quando in quando devo cercare le frasi nel dizionario di ReversoContext perche quando voglio scrivere in italiano, le parole spagnole vengono a mente. Insomma, penso che Daniel sia d’accordo con me circa la tua scrittura. Nessuno ha bisogno di aiuto per capirla e nessuno ha bisogno di buona fortuna per intenderla. Anche tu mi dai l’inspirazione per scrivere in italiano! Ma che è stato un molto lungo processo per scrivere quel paragrafo breve e la mia mente e esausta ora! Basta scrivere in italiano oggi!😓
Hey, looking for an emoticon for exhaustion, I just found an emoticon for Pinocchio!
🤥
LOL
Anyway, thanks for the idea about looking up Vacchetta’s children’s book/libro dei ragazzi! And I like your idea of a poster with Daniel’s sage advice! Would that be consiglio saggio in italiano?!! (I originally wrote sapio — a combination of sapiente, saggio, and even sabio in Spanish!) E io ho giurato di non scrivere più in italiano oggi! Wow, I think I just figured out how to do whatever verb tense “ho giurato” is. Avere plus some form of the infinitive plus -to! Does it work?!! Ho dato, ho andato, ho pensato….
Ho scritto…
Ho scoperto…
Wow! I’m learning, and it appears to be two tenses, the “I have sworn” tense and the “I swore” tense. Hmmmmm….
A presto, minou, e a tutti!
Laura
Daniel says
The tense with the auxiliary verb (which isn’t always ‘avere’ but can also be ‘essere’, basically like in French) and the past participle is called ‘passato prossimo’. If you’re interested in finding out more, there’s a lesson and a variety of exercises of greater or lesser use in our Grammar Index https://onlineitalianclub.com/index-of-free-italian-exercises-and-grammar-lessons/ Be aware that ‘ho giurato’ would translate back into English as ‘I have sworn’ and ‘I swore’, which Italians have huge issues with given that their version does both of these things…
Laura says
Time to go to the site and study passato prossimo! At least I know what the tense is called now! Thanks for the info! After reading your comment about “ho giurato” it now seems a little more complicated 😉
By the way, is “I have sworn” the passato prossimo? And what’s the tense for “I swore” called? Mille grazie!
Daniel says
An old article which touches on comparative English/Italian tenses: https://onlineitalianclub.com/tenses-in-italian-and-english-also-buona-pasqua/
Laura says
Mille grazie!
Laura says
By the way, the exercises and explanations on your website are really well done! Interesting how written and spoken Italian have many differences. Today I just found out a little about Egli, Ella, Esso, Essa, Essi, Esse, too, and how they are used mostly in written Italian. No wonder I was having trouble figuring out what was happening to whom!
Laura says
After reading your article on verb tenses, I get it now! Italian’s have huge issues with it when learning English, because they use the passato prossimo to express both tenses, whereas in English there are two separate tenses to learn and use! A lot like an English speaker learning when to use ser and estar in Spanish, and a little like me learning when to use avere versus essere when using passato prossimo! I’m going to buy your verb tense book when I purchase the next easy reader!
Daniel says
I’m going to buy your verb tense book when I purchase the next easy reader!
I didn’t write it, Laura, but I did choose the title because I knew that English native speakers wouldn’t be able to resist it (being obsessed by tenses… actually Italians only use a handful of them when they’re speaking.)
A little grammar won’t do any harm, but don’t let yourself get distracted, now, especially as you’ve been doing so well!
Laura says
Thank you for the compliment! I keep telling you it’s all on account of joining this club! And I guess some self-motivation, too! But being in the club is very motivating for me. And I do think the verb tense book will help me to understand the tenses I’m reading in the novels! Goodness knows DuoLingo doesn’t get around to tenses until much, much later in their program! I’m still in present tense with them, with sentences like “Vado al ristorante dove pranzo con le mie amiche. Mentre mangio, vedo un ragno 🕷 sul mio piatto. Dio mio, gridò al cameriere! E un ragno sul mio piatto… et cetera! You know, the DuoLingo stuff might make for a funny children’s picture book in Italian!
minou says
Laura!
Grazie mille per i complimenti e anche grazie per la tua scrittura italiana!!! Mi piace molto a fare pratica. (and you can cheat like me — when at a loss insert another language!). Grazie per “il consiglio” – non ricordavo la parola! Vedi, impariamo from each other this way!
a presto —
minou says
P.S. Laura — diventa più facile con la pratica !! m
Laura says
For anyone interested, I found a link for a book of short stories in the original Italian by the author of I Malavoglia, which I believe is our next book. The collection is called Vita dei campi. For those already finished with Uno, it might be worth a look before we start Malavoglia. The stories are very short!
https://it.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Vita_dei_campi
One of the stories, Cavalleria rusticana, was made into an opera where the musical intermezzo is the melody of one of my favorite opera songs called Attesa. Apparently someone decided to write words to the melody years later and then Sara Brightman recorded it. The lyrics are about lost love, which echoes the theme of the short story and subsequent opera!
Also, the complete text for Malavoglia in Italian can be found here:
https://it.m.wikisource.org/wiki/I_Malavoglia
minou says
L’ho finito! Alla fine, per me, questo era un libro perfetto da leggere durante l’isolamento covido19 in vista della profonda introspezione e di ‘unwinding’ di Moscarda! Che illustrazione di ciò che succede quando vai oltre il tuo limite!
E tornando alla nota precedente di Daniel su: nihilism per Moscarda. Grazie per quel’informazione perché sì, ora alla fine di Uno … vedo la ‘connection’. Ma forse nihilism con una ‘twist’? Alla fine, M vive nel momento – forse – come un buddista. La domanda per me è diventata: lui è perso nelle frammentazione di sé o ha ri-preso la sua identità ‘within a greater selfless awareness’? O lo sto dividendo in due come M nei primi capitoli? – e.g., ottimismo = buddista / pessimismo = pazzo. O forse “awakening” can be achieved not only thru la pratica buddista, ma anche attraverso il labirinto della follia. Full circle. Meravigliosa! Ma questo può essere eccessivamente positivo da parte mia. OK, abbastanza, my mind is bubbling (e.g., associations to Yeats’ The second coming) but i’m beyond my italian ability.
E Simeon: Detto bene. Grazie.
(Ma questo livello era troppo difficile per me – altri? Non vedo l’ora di ri-leggerlo dopo alcuni mesi per trovarlo più facile come advised by Daniel!) On to I malavoglia or to I promessi sposi —
Grazie a tutti!
Laura says
Daniel,
Stanotte io leggero il capitolo finale dell’originale di Uno senza la versione inglese e senza il dizionario. Ieri ho letto la tua email di gruppo da mercoledi della settimana anteriore, e voglio dire che mi sento in colpa per non aver seguito il tuo consiglio saggio circa di come leggere in una lingua straniera. Mi dispiace, Daniel. No me piace essere una causa della frustrazione. Daverro. Non avevo la minima idea del grado della tua frustrazione finche non ho letto quest’email. Riesco a diventare in buona studentessa con il prossimo libro. Mi accontentero dei riassunti della prossima novella, e di leggere altri lettori facili del tuo sito web e i racconti breve di Giovanni Verga, dal libro Vita dei campi. E forse do un’occhiata all’originale Malavoglia in italiano di volta in volta!
Insomma, sappiamo che il tuo consiglio e daverro un buen consiglio. Ho anche l’esempio della mia propria situazione, parlando spagnolo molto bene, ma mai diventando lettore della letteratura nella lingua. E che candiamo in tentazione di quando in quando con i nostri dizionari e le nostre copie della novella in inglese. Ma tutti sappiamo che hai ragione e tutti siamo grati per il tuo aiuto!
Laura
Laura says
Whoops! When I wrote the above, I was referring to your email from this past Friday, not this past Wednesday!
minou says
Laura: Grazie per i tuoi commenti in italiano! E anche, grazie per the link to I Malavoglia – che ho iniziato a leggere.
Laura says
I followed Daniel’s advice about no dictionary, and no English version, and successfully read Chapter 8 of Uno last night! Of course I didn’t understand every word, but since I had read Chapter 7 and 8 in Francesca’s easy reader version, I did have some foreknowledge of the plot. Still not entirely satisfied with my comprehension, instead of looking at the English version, this morning I decided to focus on what I HAD understood while reading. I wrote (in Italian, to practice my writing) a summary of what I had read with comprehension, and was very pleasantly surprised to find that:
1. I had understood most everything of importance in that last chapter!!!!!
2. My writing in Italian is getting a lot better and a little less time consuming.
3. I even discovered by myself that Lei is used to formally address someone! I was wondering why the word lei kept appearing when Moscarda talks to the judge, though he didn’t appear to be talking about any women when the word lei appeared!
Daniel, I assure you that you’re not banging your head against the wall in vain. I feel bad that you have to constantly reiterate your advice, but maybe it’s not such a bad thing, as new people are always joining the club and need to hear that advice, too. And we who have participated for a while know that you’re giving us good advice, and we’re striving to follow it. I have learned so much Italian in this book club that it amazes me!
Daniel says
I have learned so much Italian in this book club that it amazes me!
That’s good to hear, Laura. But you know we have masses of materials – that the Book Club is just one small part of it? Why don’t you go try some of the listening materials, for example ( https://onlineitalianclub.com/index-of-italian-listening-comprehension-exercises/ ). And/or self evaluate your level in Italian? ( https://onlineitalianclub.com/free-italian-exercises-and-resources/ ). Even (horrors!) study some grammar?? ( https://onlineitalianclub.com/index-of-free-italian-exercises-and-grammar-lessons/)
And if you haven’t already done so, subscribing to EasyItalianNews.com is free! ( https://easyitaliannews.com/subscribe/ )
Laura says
About two weeks ago I subscribed to Easy Italian News. I love it! In fact I impressed my husband when I was listening to it the other day! He said, “You actually understand that?!!“ Lol
I’m also starting to do exercises on your website. I think I mentioned the other day that the articles and exercises are very well done!
I must admit, though, that I’m especially fond our book club, as it’s helping me to get through this Covid crisis with a much more optimistic attitude. With all this social distancing, it can get a bit depressing, and the club helps me to have some social contact while at the same time learning Italian. I feel like I have something to look forward to each day as I challenge my brain reading through novels with all of you, and I always look forward to reading everyone’s comments! Il nostro club daverro me aiuta durante questo periodo di incertezza, inquietudine e disagio. Ecco perché il club mi piace così tanto!
Daniel says
In fact I impressed my husband when I was listening to it the other day! He said, “You actually understand that?!!“
Yes, that’s cool when that happens! Well done to you!
Susan Vinther says
esatto Laura…I am just such a new joiner and have stuck with the no dictionary advice. I’m up to page 172 now so should manage to finish on time. it’s such good motivation to know that others are reading too and sharing their ideas – I would like to thank you all for taking the time to write in the chat as well as Daniel for guiding and enabling this project during lockdown.
Daniel says
Prego! I’ve got ten pages left to read and am off to do it now.
Laura says
Susan,
Your progress is impressive! I also love reading everyone’s comments and ideas. I’m so thankful for everyone’s participation and for Daniel’s great advice and the time he takes to read through our comments, respond to them, and post them! Lockdown has been a rough time, and even with reopening there are fears of a rise in number of cases, and participating in this club makes it all a lot more bearable and gives me something to look forward to each day!
Laura
minou says
Laura: Apprezzo sempre i tuoi commenti. Oggi, in particolare: “participating in this club … gives me something to look forward to each day!” Quindi, ancora una volta, Laura – grazie.
Laura says
minou,
Grazie mille! E io apprezzo sempre i tuoi commenti!
Laura
Chris says
Mamma mia! Only just reached libro secondo. È molto difficile per me”!As Daniel advises no dictionary …….taking the book for what it is …… or trying too. What was that about sailing the waves in Il None Della Rosa? Think I’m trudging through mud. I may be finished around Christmas! So much vocabulary I don’t know but trying to guess and again taking Danile’s advice that we don’t need to know everything! Why is teacher like your mum …… always right! ( meant in the most endearing way Daniel)
I was thinking like Had an epiphany as I was wondering what he was getting at ( I think?!) standing in front of the mirror with his eyes closed yet he could still see himself but not as others see him….. I got it and started to question how can you actually see yourself as others do! In video perhaps? That wasn’t available way back then.
Well I shall plod on or just keep swimming as Daniel told me!
minou says
buongiorna a tutti!
Daniel – Ho letto il libro e adesso sto ascoltando l’audio RAI che hai trovato per noi. Per il tuo consiglio, sto misurando il mio livello. Stupefacente! — Ho fatto molti progressi nella comprensione dell’italiano parlato (per me la parte più difficile di questo learning/”self-teaching”). I miei continui ringraziamente a te.
E — quando sarà disponibile I Maraviglia Easy Reader?
A presto, m
Susan Vinther says
sto misurando il mio livello mentre leggo le parole di Minou adesso – ha fatto molti progressi anch’io e scrivo queste parole senza diccionario
Susan Vinther says
oops , ho fatto progressi and not ha… just one letter changed my meaning and risked sounding rather condescending, scusate .
Laura says
Lol! I read it as “ho” even though it said “ha”! I think this is the type of thing Daniel is talking about! Our minds automatically know how to make sense of things and we don’t have to focus on every word as we’re reading, as we will still get the gist of things!
Lynne B says
I read the comments here today and it inspired me to give Pirandello another try. I had read Libro Primo a week or so ago but didn’t really connect with the book at all.. Anyway, I’ve just reread it and will continue on. A little late to the party but better late than not at all.
Chris says
Va Lynn B! So cose Lei vuole dire!
In bocca al lupo!
Chris 🙂
Susan Vinther says
ho finito!
As I was reading the long introspective sections, I had a nagging thought from student days many many years ago from a course called ‘Avant-garde movements in Europe from 1910 ‘ or similar, that Pirandello and James Joyce were somehow connected. It isn’t exactly ‘stream of consciousness’ in our book, but the long interior monologues jogged my memory. (‘Ulysses’ was a set book on that course – now there’s a long book!) I then saw online that the two writers had met in 1925 and that papers have been written about their ‘fools’ as in folia, madness. Somewhere along the line the term ‘foolosopher’ was coined by a literary critic. Both writers are interested in creating characters with no fixed identity and who show signs of madness/folia and yet the characters mirror painful truths about their society to other characters ( e.g. true nature of the church, the banks ) . I remember Laura saying in an earlier post that Moscarda has true insights/ sees clearly at certain moments.
I will spare you more thoughts on all this, but it has been pleasant to reawaken my memory chest from student days. I guess the book club has brought different pleasures and challenges to us all. I’m going to focus for a while on the productive skills in Italian so that I can contribute to the club in the language when I next participate. In this way I’m heeding the call from Daniel to really think about what I want to achieve. So now to the easy reader version of Pirandello and the end of chapter exercises, and the listening material on the site….
Laura says
“characters with no fixed identity and who show signs of madness/follia and yet the characters mirror painful truths about their society to other characters ( e.g. true nature of the church, the banks )“
Exactly! Very well said! I think we could add to the list of organizations in parentheses our political systems, the news media, et cetera!
In Chapter 3, when Moscarda has the conversation with his wife to see if she knows what his profession is, and in Chapter 4, when he gets so upset at the bank, I feel that he was finally waking up to what was going on all around him, things about which he had never thought before. A little like the scene in The Matrix when Keanu Reeves is unplugged from the machine he’s been connected to all his life!
I really like this quote from Chapter 4:
“Why, yes,” I thought, “that is the whole thing, this domineering. Each one wants to impose upon others that world he has within, as if it were an outward entity… And the domineering ones, mark you, profit by it! Or better, they are under the illusion of being in a position to profit by it, by causing to be submissively accepted that meaning and that value which they attribute to themselves, to others, and to things, in order that all may see and hear, think and speak after their manner.”
minou says
Susan, grazie mille per [the fascinating]] storia di Avant garde-Pirandello-Joyce!
Laura says
One last thought for the day! I saw an ad on television this morning for Cincinnati Insurance. The narrator of the ad says,
“We know how hard you work to make a name for yourself. That’s why we operate on a first name, first priority, first to be there for you basis. Because your name is what you stand for, and at Cincinnati Insurance we stand for you!”
It made me laugh, thinking that whoever wrote this advertisement surely has not read Uno, Nessuno e Centomila! Where a name is an epitaph! Or maybe they have, and they are of the domineering type, appealing to human vanity (people wanting to BE SOMEONE/MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES) and thus subtly manipulating people into doing business with them!
I’ve always known that advertising is the fine art of manipulation, appealing to our sense of how we want to appear to ourselves and to others, but since reading Uno, I’m starting to look at it again with fresh eyes.
Laura says
Daniel,
I just read your group email today and wanted to comment on a couple points!
You wrote about I Malavoglia:
“I had been reading that same paragraph for a third time (later a fourth time) and still couldn’t work out who had done what to whom, even though I thought I understood all the words and grammar.”
And about Pirandello:
“Pirandello required that I think, ideally that I concentrate as hard as I was able…After which I had to sit a while and puzzle about whether I’d actually understood anything at all (often not.)”
It’s so reassuring to me to know that every now and then these things happens to you, too! Your candor inspires me to tackle the original Malavoglia with the club members, this time without side by side reading in English! But it obviously goes without saying that I’ll still be purchasing the Easy Reader when it comes out on Monday!
A lunedì quando ufficialmente cominciamo la nostra nuova novella!
Laura
Daniel says
It’s so reassuring to me to know that every now and then these things happens to you, too!
I rarely read in Italian for pleasure, Laura, and these are absolutely the first ‘classics’ I’ve ever read. ‘Knowing the language’ and ‘reading literature in the original’ are two very different things, as I hope I outlined today. As I mentioned, there are plenty of native English-speakers who don’t read the classics of their own language, and plenty of Italians, too. Literature students and teachers aside, and perhaps the occasional culture-vulture like Simeon, I’m sure this isn’t easy for any of us. But like I said, some people relish ‘difficult’. I’m not one of them, or at least, not when it comes to literature, not in English or in Italian. Just like other club members, I was pleased and quite proud to have finished the three books we’ve done so far. (My wife was pleased too!)
N.b. You can, of course, start reading ‘I Malavoglia’ whenever you wish. I have, as has the afore-mentioned Simeon. We both agree that the early chapters are confusing because of the use of names and nicknames – if you haven’t already started, make notes to help you! Usually, not always, the author explains the nicknames, and often they appear in italics after the real name, but not always… Other than that, though, I don’t think it’ll be nearly such hard-going as Moscarda was, poor soul.
Laura says
Speaking of poor soul, the end of Uno captures Moscarda at daybreak doing something akin to meditation! I find it hard to believe that he was even able to achieve that quiet state of mind needed for meditation, after all the ruminating he did during those 200 pages! His inner voice was even more noisy than mine, and mine can get pretty loud at times! Lol
One other thought…
isn’t it interesting how more than likely we have all formed perceptions and maybe even mental images of one another just by interacting in the book club? Even though we’ve never seen each other or met personally! (Although we have seen you in action via video in the Carbonara video with your wife and children! That was a great video, by the way, thanks for sharing it!)
Mary says
Thank goodness I can finally say farewell to Vitangelo Moscarda! Book finished and understanding of events checked through the Easy Reader.
To be honest I found it a bit tedious and thought that Moscarda’s soul searching went on for too long, inspite of the fact that I agree with the premise that we are all different things to different people. The thing is, that idea doesn’t bother me and I feel no need to search for the “real me”.
However a thought did occur to me (and I wasn’t looking in the mirror at the time….) HOW WOULD I CHANGE MY LIFE IF I WANTED TO DISPEL EVERYONE ELSE’S PERCEPTION OF WHO I AM?…Something to think about fellow Book Clubbers?!
Guardiamo sempre in avanti…Andiamo!..”I Malavoglia”.
Daniel says
‘I Malavolglia’ is MUCH MORE FUN, Mary. I just read today’s 20 pages with no sleepy moments at all.
Lynne F says
HI to all Book Clubbers, Moscarda was such a tormented soul, many sleepless nights I am sure. Once he started on his journey he unearthed many questions It made me think!
I have many different roles in life wife, daughter, mum sister, friend and many more. and the people involved in my life have all contributed to the development of the person I am and the characteristics I display. but ultimately I am who I am ME. In answer to Mary’s question I probably wouldn’t change my life, you can’t please all of the people all of the time:)
Wow i didn’t think I was capable of reading a book in Italian that provoked deep thoughts.
Thanks again to other Book clubbers for sharing this experience and to Daniel for managing and choosing such a variety of books, and the encouragement you give I like many others are benefitting so much.
Mary says
Thanks Daniel. Non vedo l’ora!