In May 2020 we’re reading Carlo Collodi’s classic children’s story ‘Le avventure di Pinocchio’. Share your progress / Join the discussion by scrolling down to the bottom of this page and leaving a comment on this page – comments will be pre-moderated – your email address will not be published or used for any other purpose.
Resources
For people who want to read the original, it’s available free online! 36 short chapters should be manageable for many of you, though the language is archaic in places. There are many places you can find the text:
- it.wikisource.it – the export functions are slow and not very good, but if you’re happy reading online, the html pages are nicely done and have the original images (scroll down to see links to each chapter. This is where I began.
- The author’s foundation, www.pinocchio.it, has a free .pdf to download.
- liberliber.it has this free .pdf, not with the original images and not fantastically formatted
- Project Gutenberg is always reliable and offers a choice of formats
For those who like to listen, there’s a RAI audio version (it’s probably abridged, I haven’t checked).
And/or you could BUY our, very short and simplified, ‘easy reader’ ebook, which also has audio. Click here to view it in our online shop and download the free sample chapter.
Whichever version you choose, remember, the fun of a book club is interacting with others and sharing opinions and ideas!
To do that, scroll down and complete the comment form. Comments will be moderated (to prevent spam) so may not appear immediately. An email address is required but will not be published or used for other purposes.
Daniel says
Welcome book-clubbers to the mini version of what we did with Eco’s ‘Il nome della rosa’. “Mini” because the text is available free online, because it’s much shorter than our last choice, and because I’m rather busy with other projects just now.
But several people mentioned that they enjoyed the book-club experience, so it seemed a shame not to provide something similar to accompany the first in our new ‘literature’ series of ‘easy reader’ ebooks. Buy a copy if you wish – that’s how we pay our bills. It’s most suitable for low-level learners, though anyone could benefit from it (there are exercises, glossaries and an accompanying audio.)
Or get the original and complete version free from the Internet. There’s a link above. If anyone finds other free Pinocchio-related resource to recommend, just let me know and I’ll add them above.
N.b. If you comment or have a question about the text, obviously it woud be helpful to mention whether you’re reading our simplified version or the original (and which original – I think there are several versions.)
Buona lettura, allora!
Veronica Redgrave says
LOVED Il Nome della rosa…grazie…having difficulty getting the RAI Radio Pinocchio? Anyone? Grazie, Veronica
Daniel says
What exactly is the issue, Veronica? There’s a thing called ‘geo-blocking’. If the rights-holder wants to, they can stop people from other countries from using the content (TV etc.) Then you should be shown some sort of message to that effect. Let us know if that’s it.
Lynne F says
Hi Daniel, Having read” Il Nome Della Rosa” with some difficulty and many gaps in the comprehension, but a great deal of pride that I finished it, I am now looking forward to reading Pinocchio. I downloaded a copy yesterday and have just purchased the Easy Reader version so I am all ready to go. My aim this time is to not only read the book but also that my comprehension will improve and I will feel confident enough to engage in the conversations with other book clubbers.
Daniel says
Welcome back, Lynne. I’m only a couple of chapters into Pinocchio (full version) myself, so I’ll be keeping you company.
Where did you get your copy?
Zsuzsanna Snarey says
There is a Kindle version for 99p.
Daniel says
I wonder how much of that the author gets??
Patricia A. Lenz says
Glad to see the launch of Pinocchio! I have purchased a Kindle version as well as a print version from Amazon.
Oh, and the Easy Reader, too. Emersion May is coming up.
Il nome della rosa..? I plan on finishing, but quit at 69% . Many parts were fascinating and good to read; however, it exhausted me at that point. I am the69% club!
I am a fan of reading shorter books…or even children’s books in Italian. I enjoyed Eco’s I promessi sposi. Short!
Looking forward to the new book club & I may even be able to read & engage with other members.
Daniel says
What a shame, Pat! You were nearly there, and the last day or two were the best bit! Maybe when you’re snowed in next winter you’ll finish it off? The last part was really good.
Lynne F says
Hi Daniel, Thanks for very efficient service I have just downloaded my Easy Reader. š My full version is also downloaded onto my laptop free from https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/. I have also managed to get it on my Kindle something called KOLL (Kindle Owners Lending Library) where you can borrow 1 book a month. ( Don’t ask me how i did it I was searching for the book and next thing I knew I had the book on loan. )So now I have no excuse i have everything covered and look forward to starting this evening
Jenny Williams says
Project Gutenberg has a free mobi version with great pictures which can be read on any kindle device or app.
Lynne F says
Thanks Jenny I realised that after I had downloaded to the computer š
Chris says
Hi Daniel,
Grazie! I enjoyed the book club even though I only read part of the original book but all the riassunti.
I think I will use your link for Pinocchio as a lot of the books I can find are late ā90s or ā00ās versions and not keeping to the original text..
Dictionary away and here goes!
A presto
Chris
Thomas Vanderslice says
Sto leggendo “Le avventure di Pinocchio” – versione integrale. Dopo Eco e facilissimo.
Hai visto il film con Geppetto da Nino Manfredi e la fata blu di Gina Lollobrigida?
Daniel says
No, Thomas. I’m a culture denier, and busy. But may be I will! Thanks for the tip.
Renee Bosma says
Hi Daniel
I couldn’t download the link – to the pdf version of Pinocchio – you sent. However, I found this one: https://www.pinocchio.it/Download/Testo_ufficiale_LeAvventure_di_Pinocchio.pdf.
It’s without pictures. By the way, years ago I bought the book in Ancona – illustrated by Cecco Mariniello and with extra info (didascalie) by Fernando Tempesti. At the time I didn’t find it difficult to read, perhaps because of the pictures. That’s why I looked for a pdf.
Your mini-bookclub is a very good initiative. Without it, I would never have read Le nome della rosa. Ciao.
Daniel says
It wasn’t a download, I think, but an online version. And they say elsewhere on the site that their .pdf downloader is dodgy.
However, I’ll try your version, thanks!
Your mini-bookclub is a very good initiative. Without it, I would never have read Le nome della rosa.
Without it NEITHER WOULD I have read Eco’s book. And I enjoyed it more than I expected.
See? Together we are stronger.
I have to restart with Pinocchio at some point soon!
Mary says
Ciao Daniel.
Thank you for starting up another book club. I’m looking forward to a new adventure!
Colleen Gilbert says
I downloaded the full version of Pinocchio and I am listening to the RAI audio. I did enjoy the whole book of Il Nome della Rosa (skipped over incomprehensible parts!) and I plan to tackle it again as my reading comprehension improves. Pinocchio will be considerably easier and I am sure i will enjoy it. I LOVED the Roberto Begnini movie and also the earlier version with Gina Lollobrigida as the Blue Fairy (my age is showing!) I saw them both in Italian with subtitles years ago. I did not like the Disney animated version -even though it was in English. I will not be surprised if the book version is not the best version of the story!
Thank you for this Book Club, Daniel!
Laura says
Colleen,
I didnāt care much for the Disney version either. Iāve only read reassunto #1 and the first chapter of the original, and I can already say that the book is so much better than the Disney version! (Although the songs in the Disney version were beautiful ā especially When You Wish Upon A Star. I have to give them credit for that!) I think the Disney version even left out il vecchio Ciliegia, and heās my favorite character right now!
Colleen Gilbert says
Yes, Laura, the Disney music is lovely. Pinocchio is definitely more fun to read than Il Nome Della Rosa.! Much easier to understand. I will definitely be able to finish the e book!
Carol says
Iām looking forward to this. I have ordered the easy reader, but I also have a copy of Kindle and I also found tucked away, another copy that is in English and Italian. But I will stay away from that one and just enjoy the Italian here with everyone else. Hopefully this will be a light read after Il Nome della Rosa which I found challenging but enjoyable. Of course made all the easier to understand with Francescaās Riassunto.
Andiamo!!
Buon leggere a tutti!!
Grazie Daniel!
Isabel says
Dear Daniel,
So grateful for your book club, mini or not.
I went overboard and bought myself an expensive mother’s day present – “Hardcover, unabridged and illustrated with some of the small graphics of the original edition” from a bookshop in Melbourne because I really find reading “real” books more comfortable and they don’t have to be plugged in or recharged – It’s my age I guess.
While I’m waiting for it to be delivered (AustPost supposedly overwhelmed) I’m reading an online full text version, plus I’ve ordered your Easy Reader version for extra clarity. Your Easy Readers are far superior to others I’ve come across and also with the audio included so neatly. And very good value!
So, I’m a bit slow because I’m reading the online version, then the riassunto, then listening to the audio. I’m also reading another book of Francesca’s – “Anselmo e l’omicidio di Giovanni Borgia” and of course another novel in English, like for dessert. All of this keeps me from obsessing over virus news.
Daniel says
I’d be interested to know what you think of ‘Anselmo’ when you’re done, Isabel. I enjoyed it and we sold a reasonable number of copies, but got few reviews, which is always a worry – I suspect people are too nice to write that they hated it!
Steph says
Looking forward to reading Pinocchio with everyone!
Laura says
Daniel,
Iām in! Just bought the Pinocchio Easy Reader, and Iām also going to try to make it through the full book online! For me, I guess that will be like the rest of you reading the full version of Il Nome della Rosa! Iām excited about learning more Italian and looking forward to going through another book with all of you!
Laura
Laura says
I read Chapter 1 of the Easy Reader last night, and this morning Chapter 1 of the original version online. I was very excited that I understood 75-80% of the original text without dictionary usage! I didnāt understand every word of the original text, but I got the gist of what was happening. Povero Ciliegia! Now I understand exactly why in the Easy Reader he was so eager to give this piece of wood to Geppetto! In the easy version it says āCiliegia gli offre subito il legno parlante…ā If I had the experience Ciliegia had, Iād be giving that piece of wood away subito, too! Itās been a long time since I watched Disneyās Pinocchio, but already this book appears to be a lot better than the movie version! Itās funny, too! The author had a good sense of humor!
Daniel says
Brava, Laura! You’re an example for the rest of us.
Laura says
Daniel,
Youāre too kind! I have a lot of time right now, weāre still under lockdown here in North Carolina USA, although I think the governor is getting ready to lift some of the restrictions on Monday. Before lockdown I worked part time at a bead store (where they sell items to make your own jewelry), and I sold jewelry that I designed and hand crafted at a local gallery (where up until two months ago it used to be selling nicely). Now Iām at home senza lavoro for an indefinite period. Iām so grateful my husband has a job that he can work remotely. Funny thing is, I havenāt made one piece of jewelry since the lockdown, but instead I am studying Italian! I have wanted to do so for 2 years now, ever since I fell in love with Italian opera songs at the age of 51 (thereās a story behind that one! Lol)
Anyway, what I really want to say is that these book clubs have been a beacon of light for me during this time. I feel I have something mentally stimulating to look forward to each day. So thank you, for hosting these clubs and helping us all to connect during this strange time weāre living through!
Laura
Daniel says
With feedback like that, Laura, it’s a pleasure.
Chris says
Just purchased the easy reader to compliment the original version. Felt it was the least I could do when you, Daniel , give us so much for free.
Buon fine settimana
Daniel says
Anche a te, Chris.
Glennis says
Great choice of book. There are also some interesting materials on raicultura in their Pinocchio special.
https://www.raicultura.it/speciali/pinocchio/
Helene Jnane says
Agreed. It’s a great choice. And, thank you for sharing the link to raicultura. The materials are interesting.
Helene Jnane says
I agree that it’s a great choice. And there are some interesting materials on raicultura. Thank you for the link!
Chris says
4 chapters into the original followed by 2 chapters of the easy reader. So much easier than Il Nome della Rosa. Lol!! A lot of vocabulary I donāt know but getting the gist with relative ease if I dare say! Funny the fights between. Geppeto and Ciliegia! Still best friends for life! How horrid is Pinocchio!
Enjoying the read! Grazie mille Daniel for the book club as itās making me read more .
Laura says
Chris,
The illustrations are helping me, as Iām not quite at the level of the rest of you. I guess thatās why childrenās books for beginning readers have pictures! Lol
Laura
Daniel says
The illustrations in the original books are good. But it’s a rare children’s book where the illustrations are enough to tell the story.
Michael Rosen’s “We’re going on a bear hunt” comes close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gyI6ykDwds But as you can see from the video, the voice of the narrator (parent, usually) is essential. Nothing has changed since Pinocchio…
Zsuzsanna Snarey says
I think Michael Rosen is brilliant! I love this video. Thanks for sharing Daniel! I have shared it with my two little grandchildren.
minou says
buongiorno a tutti!
Daniel, as always, grazie per le tue e-mails stimolanti per il ‘book club’ (BC) and for the links. While ordering the easy reader, I put on the RAI audio — i was flabbergasted!!! After slogging thru Il nome (written AND audio) i was understanding a lot of the audio right off the bat! Si’, e’ molto piu’ facile! Thank you. By the way, while looking for a used hard copy of Le avventure di Pinocchio, i also found/bought Il piccolo prinicipe (Saint-Exupe’ry) e un libro interessante (spero) su un cane che vive a pompeii.
Fun to see/read many of continuing BCers – along with newcomers, certo.
I’m especially grateful that this BC is starting up so soon: after my marathon w/ Il nome, I was still gasping at the finish line (i.e., I had not practiced further any italiano)! Back in the saddle (italian idiom?)
Buona lettura.
Daniel says
What’s the title of the dog book, Minou?
minou says
ciao, Daniel. il titolo e’ Adriano, il cane di Pompei, di M. Frederick (AbeBooks.com).
Daniel says
DISCUSSION QUESTION: SUCCESSFUL BOOKS/FILMS FOR CHILDREN MIGHT HAVE ICONOCLASTIC THEMES AND/OR CONTAIN DIALOGUES/JOKES THAT ARE INTENDED TO BE UNDERSTOOD ONLY BY ADULTS (SHREK, FOR EXAMPLE.) IS THERE EVIDENCE OF THIS IN ‘PINOCCHIO’, DO YOU THINK?
n.b. Feel free to post your own questions. I suggest using ALL CAPS like above will help them stand out from more general comments and interactions.
Laura says
Daniel,
Itās so funny that you mention Shrek! I was just telling my husband yesterday that the original Pinocchio is a lot like Shrek, which has a lot of adult humor. (And the movie has even more adult humor ā if you havenāt seen Shrek the movie, I highly recommend it.) This was in response to his comment about why we had chosen a childrenās book to read in our club. To be honest, when we were discussing what our next book would be during Il Nome, I was thinking, āOh no! Please choose another book, not Pinocchio!ā But Pinocchio is great! Iāve been laughing A LOT through Chapters 1 and 2! Definitely full of adult humor, but with an appealing plot line for children.
Daniel says
Shrek won’t take his helmet off (after rescuing the princesss), because he doesn’t want to reveal he’s an ogre. “Why not?” asks the princess. “Helmet hair” shrek replies. And a thousand other examples of humor that only adults would get. Eddie Murphy voicing the part of the talking (then FLYING!) donkey. Truly magic. But magic for adults. Can anyone tell us if Pinocchio is really a kids’ book, or a satire aimed at grown-ups?
Laura says
Ciao a tutti!
Just finished Capitolo 2 in the original. My plan is to read the original up to the point where the first riassunto left off, then return to the next reassunto, and then go back to the original text. Chapter 2 was funny, too! Carlo Collodi, the author, definitely had a great sense of humor, which makes the book appealing to both children and adults! The illustrations are great, too. They help me understand some of the text, Did Collodi do his own illustrations?
I also learned some insults that you can use when arguing in Italian! š¤£
A presto…
Daniel says
Very old insults, probably…
I think Collodi was making it up as he went along. The chapter’s were originally newspaper articles, I heard. Dickens did the same thing with some of his earlier books – serialisations, day to day, week to week, that were eventually published as a novel (you can tell…)
But as a pre-school teacher myself, the first couple of chapters ring true. They’re very slapstick, absurdist. The two old guys with wigs arguing, and later, Gepetto home – he’s so poor, he has a fire place painted on the wall! That said, in a later chapter, when Pinocchio is consumed by hunger, finds an egg, and is planning how to cook it – I’m 100% sure that if I’d been telling the story, the kids would have reminded me that it wasn’t a real fire. Five-year olds are sharp like that.
Helene Jnane says
I’m new to the club. Is there a link to the first riassunto? Also, I’d like to purchase the ‘easy reader.’ Since the price is stated in pounds, is there a process for paying in U.S. dollars? Thank you Laura. Thank you, Daniel.
Daniel says
No ‘riassunti’ this time, Helene. That’s the ‘aasy reader’. If you wish to buy it (there’s no reason to, if you’re up for reading the original, which is free online), then choose the Paypal/credit card option. Your card will convert from Ā£ to $, just as if you were in Europe on holiday and bought a snack in the local currency. And just like that, you can expect that the conversion rate your card provider uses will not be favorable to you… Ā£5.99 at the best possible rate would be $7.50, but that could easily be more.
Hope that helps!
Helene Jnane says
Yes. Thank you, Daniel.
Laura says
Just thought of a couple of examples of the adult humor. For instance, in Chapter 1, the narrator starts with āOnce upon a time…ā and all the children chime in āThere was a king…ā and the narrator replies, āNo, children, once upon a time there was a piece of wood!ā I think perhaps that was a satirical nod to the cliche beginnings of fairytales up to that point! Also, the fighting between Geppetto and Ciliegia reminded me of something out of The Three Stooges!
Daniel says
I think perhaps that was a satirical nod to the cliche beginnings of fairytales up to that point!
Hans Christian Andersen was the fairy-tale guy, and as I recall, there wasn’t a lot of satire or humour, just lots of moralising. Pinocchio tells the talking cricket in the chapter I read yesterday, having been lectured that if he doesn’t want to go to school he’ll have to learn a trade, that the only ‘trade’ he’s interested in is that of the vagabond, eating, drinking and doing whatever he pleases all day. A reference to Aesop, perhaps ( http://www.read.gov/aesop/001.html ) but with much less serious intent!
Laura says
Just read Capitolo 4. So much for Jiminy Cricket wishing upon a star! He does do some croaking at the end of the chapter, though. Walt Disney really modified the story…
Daniel says
I’m sure they always to, Laura.
Pam says
Hello Daniel and Bookclubbers:
Thankyou for the links to Rai Cultura and the Authors Foundation. I am now the proud owner of the Easy Reader (grazie Daniel) a pdf from the Authors Foundation and an epub version from Project Guten berg.
No Disney smaltz here. Have read the first chapters of the Easy Reader and the first chapters of the Gutenberg version and the Authors Foundation Phew!! Having only known the Disney version I didn’t even know about Ciliegia. So the arguments between the two old friends are refreshing.
Have always thought that the best children’s books have elements that appeal to adults. The whole point of reading to children is to have them engaged in the story and reading.
Daniel you note that Pinnocchio was written as a serial for newspapers which made me think of many of the Roald Dahl children’s stories which began life as bedtime stories for his children where the adventures and characters become for a time wilder and wilder.
Buona lettura a tutti
Finding this easier than ‘Nome’ and far more humorous
Daniel says
Yes, Roald Dahl came to my mind too, Pam.
Mary says
I also enjoyed the fight between Geppetto and maestro Ciliega, insults, wigs and all, and of course the way they are the very best of friends afterwards. (Dare I say that is a typical little boy thing?)
Glancing quickly through the first few chapters of the full version of the book, I think I found a couple of jokes for the adult reader;
1. that the richest member of the “Pinocchio” family was the one who went out begging and
2. that Pinocchio would have to go to a neighbouring hamlet to find a charitable person to give him food.
PS. What a horrible little boy Pinocchio is!
Lynne F says
Ciao Daniel and fellow Bookclubbers, I decided to read the Easy reader first (Review to follow Daniel ) I have now read 4 chapters of the Gotenburg version. Certainly much easier than Il nome della rosa and i am reading with much better comprehension. I have found some quite old fashioned words and phrases but these just add to the atmosphere of the story . The fight scene made me laugh so much. I am pleased that my reading skills are sufficient for me to understand the humour for both children and adults.that others have commented on. Already the book is revealing all the elements of a good children’s story ( as a former Early years teacher I have read many both modern and more traditional) It is interesting that these stories whether written by English authors , Italian or from other parts of the world contain the same elements.
Daniel says
It is interesting that these stories whether written by English authors , Italian or from other parts of the world contain the same elements.
What do you think those elements are, Lynne? Just out of interest?
Lynne F says
Hi Daniel I would include here
the ‘good guy’ and the ‘bad guy” the latter often being a bit scary giving the reader a sense of fear and excitement. What child
has not been terrified by the baddy
a moral
an appeal to both children and adults
engaging language that brings the story to life
and a suppose although not strictly the story , i would include illustrations . For example the pencil line drawings in my version
of Pinocchio are at face quite simple but express so much. I love them.
Laura says
Lynne,
I love those illustrations, too!
Laura
Laura says
I more or less know the elements of a good childrenās story, and of a good story in general. But I did some research online this morning and found some advice geared to childrenās authors.
The first article mentioned remembering that you are writing to a dual audience (i.e. parent and child), having a hook (something that grabs your readerās attention and compels them to keep reading), a conflict, and a message.
The second article I looked at mentioned āa lasting identityā. To quote the author, āItās vital that your childrenās story has a strong identity that sticks with kids. Too many childrenās books end up blurring together due to a lack of anything that makes them truly unique or memorable.ā
I think we can say that Pinocchio has all these elements! For me, the hook was āOnce upon a time there was a piece of wood…ā and, of course, the interaction of that piece of wood with il vecchio Cigliegia! That was genius! Itās what gives the story a lasting identity, as well. Who had ever written about āun pezzo di legno viventeā before?!! Pure genius ā something that would definitely entertain a dual audience!
And then there are so many conflicts. I can hardly wait to find out what happens to Pinocchio at the end, knowing that this story definitely does not follow the Disney version!
As for the message, for children it seems to be that itās better to be āgoodā and listen to your parents, but I definitely think that Collodi was also writing on a satirical level for adults. But I do think he was writing for both groups. It even says in la nota introduttiva dei riassunti that Collodi, after translating some fairy tales, āsi appassiona alla letteratura per bambiniā e che ānel 1881, Collodi pubblica una storia a episodi su un giornale per bambini e il titolo ĆØ āLe Avventure di Pinocchio.ā
So, for what itās worth, those are my thoughts on the matter!
P.S. On a side note, I did look up the word Babbo. I figured it meant something like father. Then I realized that it looked a lot like Babbino in one of my favorite opera songs, āO Mio Babbino Caroā. So I googled the lyrics in Italian, and due to our club, I understood them for the most part, although I did glance at the English translation, too. So now I know what the song means and can sing along with words, although Iāll have to memorize them! Before our club, I was singing āohsā and āahsā and I thought the singer was singing to her baby (bambino vs. babbino!
š¤£š¤£š¤£
šš Two thumbs up for our book club!!!
P.P.S. Io sono ancora molto triste che il grillo-parlante ācroakedā alla fine di Capitolo 4. š¢
Daniel says
As for the message, for children it seems to be that itās better to be āgoodā and listen to your parents
I think the story-teller is doing that in a very tongue-in-cheek way, actually having a wild time sharing with his young listeners what sort of fun they might have if they choose the forbidden way, and anarchy!
Laura says
Yes, I can definitely picture that, now that you mention it! I would have liked to have met Carlo Collodi in person! What an interesting man, with such a great imagination!
Lynne F says
Laura , I have replied to Daniel’s question above with my thoughts so I am sure they will appear soon. i would be interested to hear your comments on them.
Regarding the word “Babbo ” it is also used for Father Christmas , Babbo Natale
Laura says
Daniel,
I have a question for you. I am reading each chapter of the original version without the dictionary. Sometimes I read a couple of chapters at a time. And Iām catching the gist of most all of it. But then, before allowing myself to go on, I go back and do some vocabulary work, jotting down some words and their meanings, which I confirm with the ReversoContext dictionary online. This part is definitely not as fun as the reading, but it is helping me build some vocabulary, because I need to start knowing more words than knife, fork, spoon, table, etcetera! So Iām enjoying a couple chapters without the dictionary, sometimes reading over each chapter a few times, because with each reading something new will stand out that I didnāt understand before. Then I work on memorization of words I might need to know in the future. Then back to reading for enjoyment again. Is this a bad habit? Iām definitely learning a lot of new words, but Iām wondering if I should just keep reading and skip the word building until Iāve finished the book. I do know it would be too overwhelming to do this dictionary work with a regular book, but since these chapters are very short, Iām trying to take advantage of the brevity to also learn new words. Please remember Iāve only been studying Italian for a month and a half now, so please be merciful in your response! Lol
Laura
P.S. I think I know already what youāre going to say, and that would be to just enjoy the book and not worry about memorization, and that Iāll learn the words automatically the more I continue reading in Italian.
Daniel says
Ciao Laura,
Good you already know what I’ll say, but on the assumption that other people might not, here’s what I think!
Iām wondering if I should just keep reading and skip the word building until Iāve finished the book
One problem with new words that you encounter when reading is basically about ROI (return on investment – of your time):
1.) You don’t (yet) know how frequent the word will be (will checking the meaning and memorizing it be a good investment of your time?)
2.) You don’t (yet) know how important the word will be (couldn’t you just hypothesise? It’s quicker. Do you really need to check ‘properly’?)
3.) Is the word even still in use?
4.) Would anyone actually use it in conversation? If not, you’ll sound odd if you do. And you’ll never hear it, so it won’t help your conversation.
I could go on. But the OTHER problem is simple – reading is reading, a learned process that many (not all) of us are comfortable with in our own language and can do without effort, but one which we have to RELEARN in a new language (because, for example, of all the new words – but not only.)
Whereas studying is studying. It’s something absolutely different, with a different methodology, different goals, and different means of measuring success.
You can LEARN from studying, of course you can, that’s what much of our education system is based on.
But is that how we learn in ‘higher education’? It’s not a conincidence that they used to ask ‘what are you READING at university?’ (meaning which subject are you ‘studying’?)
College professors don’t study. They read a lot, go to conferences, and write papers.
One of the things that I believe about language learning is that if you can get into the habit of reading the language (reading for reading, not reading for studying) then half the battle is won.
Reading to learn new words (directly, as a ‘source’ of words to learn) is a total distraction, is inefficient, is demotivating for many people (as there are SO MANY WORDS!)
Reading for content, for fun, is a much, much more efficient process, once which we are already practised at and only need to adapt to the new language. We already have skills for dealing with the words we don’t know when we read in English (we ignore, we guess…)
Refusing to use these abilities in our second language learning seems foolish.
Daniel
Laura says
Daniel,
Last night I took the advice I already knew youād give me (LOL) and finished chapters 7-9 without writing down any words and their definitions between chapters! I plan to continue on without my vocabulary building exercises! It will be an experiment of how much my comprehension grows without memorization of words! Thatās what Iāll tell myself each time I feel tempted to write down words and meanings! And Iāll try to remember how, even though Iām pretty fluent in Spanish, I never got really good at reading novels in Spanish because of the tedium of looking up words and their definitions! Donāt get me wrong, I did read several Spanish novels, but eventually gave it up due to the my not-so-fun over reliance on the dictionary.
By the way, āIs the word even still in use?ā is a very good point for Pinocchio! Lots of colloquial language appropriate to the time period here!
Mille grazie per tutto che fai per aiutare! Iād say āfor all you do to help USā, but I donāt understand how to use indirect object pronouns yet! Iāll have to look it up on your website! DuoLiingo is pretty slow getting around to it, which is ridiculous as we use these pronouns all the time in speech!
By the way, Iām sort of excited to have had a real thought in Italian the other day! I was thinking of some housework I could do, and in my mind I said, āMa perche?!!ā And then, āPreferisco leggere Pinocchio!ā
julie says
Hi everyone
I am 3 chapters into Pinocchio and getting the gist of it.
I loved the book as a child!
I have the audio on Soundcloud so listening to that too!
Daniel says
I loved the book as a child!
I have to admit that I always disliked this story, Julie. Maybe I’m too much of a conformist, but P. just seemed so BAD!
However, now I’m enjoying it much more than I expected. I’m now up to chapter 9 or 10 of the original.
How are other people getting on?
Christine says
Ciao Bookclub members – just wondering how many of you are reading aloud (Pinocchio is after all a kids book )? (Dahlās books are great read aloud to kids.) Enjoying the read and peopleās comments. And, thank you Daniel for this initiative! š
Daniel says
If you had Italian kids to read to, that might be a great strategy, Christine! But otherwise… What fun is it to read a story aloud to yourself?
Mary says
I am enjoying reading Pinocchio, but don’t really like the story. I don’t like reading about all the nasty things Pinocchio gets away with ……and Geppetto is just too understanding. I particularly dislike the way I end up feeling sorry for the horrible little boy when he is hungry, cold, injured etc. I think I would feel better if his nose did grow every time he told a lie!
Re. word building via reading. I agree with Daniel’s point that we can’t possibly know if an unknown word is ever going to be any use to us, so its not worth spending time looking it up. If you reach the point of seeing it loads of times in different contexts, then maybe that is the moment to reach for the dictionary.
I get a real sense of achievement from transferring and applying things I already know: in order to understand new words; eg. I know about the negative connotation of the ending “accio/a” eg. tempaccio/parolaccia so it is easy to understand “una nottataccia” and un “ventaccio” at the start of Chapter VI.
Laura says
Mary,
Thanks for the tip about words that end in accio/accia! I had noticed this during my reading, knew it was an emphasis of some kind, but thanks to you I now understand more!
minou says
buongiorno a tutti! i love reading all the comments, and other’s ideas help a lot. e.g., someone referred to slapstick comedy group [not Marx Bros, but i can’t remember. . .] in connection w/ the fight in Ch.1. This helped me pick up the tone of the book, which I was not connecting to at all. This is not the Pinocchio I grew up with! (I’m still upset over the abrupt splattering of Grillo Parlante.) So, now I just read this as una nuova storia! Sto leggendo capitolo XIV e ascoltando a Easy Reader.
Christine (May 5 above) re: Reading out loud to oneself: Daniel – here’s another way to view it for us beginners. I too read aloud to myself – like a youngster learning to read. i love the sound of la lingua and i can practice pronunciation – specialmente quelle belle rrrolling rrrs! It adds to my enjoyment of the reading; I act out the parts/voices…. Entusiasmo!
buona lettura!
Pam says
I’m with Minou and Christine ‘re reading aloud, yes just like a child learning…you hear the sound of the language and work out how the words work together. The sentences seem to make more sense….Thinkofenglishwithoutgaps……..that’s how a new language sounds to beginners (or at least my experience seems to be) so reading aloud is finding the gaps and listening to the rhythm of the language and making sense of it.
Now elements of Fairy stories: Time frame Once upon a time….they lived happily ever after: :Magic and spells: Villians and heroes: Poverty to riches:: a Journey.to a new place OR a new understanding:: Aconflict to be resolved: Talking animals and/or Objects: Alesson or Moral.: dreams come true: relatable characters.
…In a galaxy far far away………
Daniel says
To Christine, Minou and Pam, in no particular order…
Minou writes: “Reading out loud to oneself: Daniel ā hereās another way to view it for us beginners. I too read aloud to myself ā like a youngster learning to read. i love the sound of la lingua and i can practice pronunciation ā specialmente quelle belle rrrolling rrrs! It adds to my enjoyment of the reading”
Now back to what Pam wrote:
just like a child learningā¦you hear the sound of the language and work out how the words work together. The sentences seem to make more senseā¦.Thinkofenglishwithoutgapsā¦ā¦..thatās how a new language sounds to beginners (or at least my experience seems to be) so reading aloud is finding the gaps and listening to the rhythm of the language and making sense of it.
Well actually, Pam… Children learning to read absolutely DO NOT do that, except in films, where the director needs some device to show the viewers that, wow, the child is reading! Or if their parents force them to do that, in which case they’ll likely be put off reading for ever after. In real life, kids (and adults) either read quickly to find out what happens next or, if they encounter difficulty, they quit and find something that they’d prefer to do instead.
Christine writes: “Iām with Minou and Christine āre reading aloud, yes just like a child learningā¦you hear the sound of the language and work out how the words work together. The sentences seem to make more senseā¦.Thinkofenglishwithoutgapsā¦ā¦..thatās how a new language sounds to beginners (or at least my experience seems to be) so reading aloud is finding the gaps and listening to the rhythm of the language and making sense of it.”
OK, SO IT SEEMS MY ROLE AROUND HERE IS TO DISAGREE WITH EVERYONE, ALL OF THE TIME! (I’ll stop shouting now,)
But seriously, ladies, when you’re deciding how best to do something, even without having a specialist or professional knowledge of the methodology (teachers often do, though not always, learners often don’t, but get on fine anyway), it really helps to talk about one goal at a time. If you are doing two things at the same time (i.e. reading for pleasure and reading to learn new words) then in fact you have two different goals and there is the risk, not certainty, that your chosen approach will be a compromise, so not as efficient as it would be if you had just the one goal.
Typically when we teach ‘reading as a skill’, we NEVER do it by reading aloud. There are lots of excellent didactic reasons, but I’ll come back to that. What we normally ask students to do is to read first for general understanding (and verify that with broad comprehension questions), then read again for specific details (testing understanding with much more specific questions), and only then, IF time, focusing on unknown aspects of the text, which could be vocabulary, grammar, pronunciation or some cultural aspect.
That’s the general approach that a pro classroom lanaguage teacher would use, and that’s what I usually do myself when I am reading in the languages I’m learning. I read for general understanding, then stop.
Thinkofenglishwithoutgapsā¦ā¦..thatās how a new language sounds to beginners
No, that’s how all languages sound, all of the time, to everyone. It’s just that when we are beginners we have zero ability to decode the stream of phonemes. Languages sound ‘joined up’ if you listen carefully, but actually we don’t ‘listen’ to what we hear – when I want to remind myself of what you said, I replay the ‘already processed’ version from my memory banks. You can easily verify that, for example by using homophones (words which sound the same but have different meanings and spellings) – You told me “I no lots of words in English”, someone else asks me what you said and I reply “She knows lots of words in English”. See what happened there? (Because you couldn’t have HEARD it – no and know are homophones). My brain ‘fixed’ what you told me, based on my understanding of the rules of language and the probablities. What I then remember ‘hearing’ is the edited version. Another example: ‘a /red/ newspaper’ (= read) but ‘a /red/ apple’ (= the color). The // contain the phonemic symbols, which are identitical, even though the spelling differs.
Italian has few homophones, so those examples are specifc to English, but the process of taking a stream of phonemes and turning it into understandable ‘chunks’ of meaning is one that takes time to acquire in a new language, and the best ways to promote that new ability is with lots of LISTENING practice, ideally with materials that are appropriate to your level.
Only-in-text-do-we-use-gaps-to-delineate-words-or-grammatical-components, and then not consistently in a language (in English, some compound words are separate, some are hyphenated, some are joined together – it’s a spelling convention, the pronunciation does not reflect whether or not there’s a gap) or betweenn languages (German/Swedish etc. have impossibly long compound nouns). These are WRITING conventions, and writing conventions are important to reading, of course they are, but are unlikely to be of any value to improving your listening comprehension or speaking skills.
In my opinion, using a written text to teach yourself to speak or listen more effectively is a less effective use of your time than, say, listening to an audio task designed specifically for that purpose, or actually speaking. And reading alound, while it involves the use of your tongue, is basically NOT speaking, as any fool can see. Compare what (random example) President Trump sounds like when he’s reading a speech from a teleprompter written for him by someone else, and when he’s speaking off the cuff, as he clearly prefers to do. Really, there’s absolutely no comparison. It’s not just that he sounds different, it’s an entirely different act, and more (or less) effective as a consequence. Ditto with how actors always sound meaningful and charismatic in films (oh wow, I’d love to go for a beer with him/her) but can seem rather banal on talkshows when they’re not reading someone else’s words.
Conclusion?
Do whatever you want, but if you want the most progress in the least time, it helps to define WHY you are doing something and to choose an approach that facilitates that thing only. If it appears that you have two objectives (I am learning to read AND learning to pronounce words more confidently), then it is at least possible that you would be getting better results by focusing on those things at different times (no reason you can’t do one thing first, then the other, using the same material…)
Bene, end of today’s lecture.
Patricia Lenz says
Hi, Daniel & clubbers. Even in English, when I am deep into a complex text, and my mind wanders to what I need to do next in my studio, my garden, my kitchen…I put that reading aside..
When that mind-wandering happens in something like Pinocchio, I like to read that section aloud. I like the sound of it, and it re-focusses my attention! In Pinocchio the chapters are short, and the chapter headings are a great measure of what I’ve understood.
The Easy Reader helps there, too.
I just finished reading the original on Kindle. I like occasionally accessing the instant definitions of unknown words (usually nouns); the basic Pinocchio story is familiar, so checking definitions didn’t slow me down.
On You Tube I downloaded 1971 Un burratino di nome Pinocchio–its a remastered animation directed by Giuliano Cenci. In my humble opinion, it added to the reading experience and it was great fun to listen to! (in Italian, of course!) Well-done even if watching animation isn’t your thing. I recommend it!
We are still in “stay at home”mode, and any day now I may go back to the last part of Il nome della rosa….
BTW: thanks for the suggestions!
Daniel says
You’re way ahead of me then, Pat! I’m only up to about chapter 12 (the puppet show, when the puppet master contents himself with uncooked mutton…) I find the short chapters are easy to get through, ONCE I sit down to read. It’s doing that that’s the problem, often.
Laura says
Minou,
I think I was the one who mentioned that the fighting between Geppetto and Ciliegia reminded me of something out of the Three Stooges! I want you to know that I, too, was traumatized by la morte improvvisa del Grillo-Parlante! š¢š¢š¢ Now every time I think of the song āWhen You Wish Upon A Starā I feel so sad!
Of course Iām being a bit tongue in cheek, but I definitely wasnāt expecting quella morte improvvisa at the end of Chapter 4!
As for reading out loud, Iām not good enough at Italian pronunciation to even attempt that with a book! Although Daniel does have a point about focusing on one goal at a time! He usually seems to have pretty good advice!
Laura
Martha says
Wow, lots of comments being that I have joined you late.
To be honest I have my copy of it from some time ago and I can’t be sure where it came from. but it says “Fondazione Nazionale Carlo Collodi” at the top and this under the title: Ā«Testo tratto dall’Edizione Critica edita dalla Fondazione Carlo Collodi in occasions del Centenario di Pinocchio (1983) a cura di Ornella Castellani Pollidori con il patrocinio dell’Accademia della Crusca.Ā»
What’s great is you can can copy words ot phrases when you need help. Often that’s not the case! I will be reading on the computer. I have seen some free copies through Amazon for Kindle
http://www.pinocchio.it/Download/Testo_ufficiale_LeAvventure_di_Pinocchio.pdf
Audio sources (different sites) https://www.classicipodcast.it/pinocchio
Alison Edwards says
Lots of good advice here. I have definitely found recording anything I’ve done Italian wise in a daily journal helps. Today, for example; Revising future and conditional tenses (which because they are similar I struggled to take in) for 10 minutes, reading Pinocchio for 3 chapters, you get the drift. I am not attending my usual weekly class during lockdown (short Zoom catch up instead) and I know this will knock the small amount of confidence I have in speaking the language but payback is I am doing more study every day. Another tip; change your Facebook language on settings to Italian, this gives a few stock phrases which will sink in. Anything your friends write will still be in English. All helps and I’m not for quitting!!
Isabel says
Thanks for the 2 simple approaches … def. gonna try them.
It’s interesting that the Italian ‘2 birds…’ metaphor is so much gentler than the English version.
I’ve bitten off more than I can chew. Is the Italian version ” ho fatto il passo piĆ¹ lungo della gamba” ?
I’ve been reading too many books at the same time – I’m mixing up the story lines in my head, which can be quite amusing but not helpful (murder mystery in late 15th century Papal State, English spy novel and Pinocchio). Something had to give so I’m now just staying with Pinocchio.
I’ve definitely come around to thinking that reading out loud is counterproductive. I discovered that if I read a whole page of Pinocchio out loud I’d get carried away with the sound of my own voice, trying to pronounce all correctly, and at the end of the page I’d not have the faintest idea of the meaning of what I’d just read!! So I now just speak out loud the odd unfamiliar word to see if it gives a clue to the meaning.
Steph says
Iām with you Isabel. I think reading out loud is good if you want to practice pronunciation, but as far as comprehension goes it slows you down and fragments the text and the meaning.
I think children read out loud because adults make them do it so they can correct them.
Patricia Lenz says
I forgot to add; thanks for your suggestion of Pinocchio on it.wikisource.it I love the illustrations and how they contrast with the animations!
& in my last post, the you tube is 1971 un burattino di nome Pinocchio. I misspelled burattino.
Steph says
The naughtiness of Pinocchio reminds me of Sendakās Where the Wild Things Are. There arenāt many books that show this aspect of childrenās psyches and Sendakās book was VERY controversial when it came out. And this book is so much older!!!
No wonder children love it. Itās what is bubbling inside all of them.
Too bad Disney had to sanitize it!!
Daniel says
All children (and many adults) are keen to better understand what they could, should they so choose, get away with, Steph. That’s a lot of that in story-telling – pushing the limits and keeping everyone in suspense about whether the character will get away with it, or perhaps regret not having ventured further.
Laura says
Daniel,
I like the advice that you gave in a previous response:
āIf it appears that you have two objectives (I am learning to read AND learning to pronounce words more confidently), then it is at least possible that you would be getting better results by focusing on those things at different times (no reason you canāt do one thing first, then the other, using the same materialā¦)
I remember in high school that when we were working through a piece of literature, the English teachers would have us take turns reading sections out loud before having a discussion of the passage. I remember that it was really hard to read out loud and maintain comprehension of the material at the same time (even if you had read the passage) the night before)!
Then I thought of how we teach reading in elementary school, where we are always having beginning readers read out loud in the classroom, a lot of times with material unfamiliar to them. Maybe all this reading out loud that we make beginning readers do at school is counterproductive? I never really thought about it before. Because when youāre reading something youāve never seen before out loud, then comprehension can be lost. Maybe thatās why so many children struggle with reading.
Of course, beginning readers need to become fluent, and reading the same passage over and over out loud can help with fluency. Right before the lockdown I was going to start volunteering with elementary students reading below grade level, and I attended a training session. Basically there were a series of passages without pictures, and the child had to stay on the same passage until they could read it with a certain percentage of accuracy and comprehension. Then they moved on to the next passage, but the adult would always read that new passage first, so that they had some idea of what the story was about. Apparently the program was very successful, but thinking back, it wasnāt about reading for enjoyment, it was more of a drill to promote word recognition and fluency.
So to end this rumination of mine, I think youāre definitely right about having one focus at a time! This needs to be the case with beginning readers reading in their native language, as well. Somehow we have to encourage reading for enjoyment, especially for those who are struggling. Drilling for fluency is of course essential, but we have to remember that it is entirely different from reading for pleasure and we should focus on one thing at a time!
By the way, I donāt feel that your job is to disagree with everyone all the time! Lol
You have a lot of insight, others have insights, and the interaction between all of us makes us reflect on things we might not have thought about before!
Laura
Daniel says
Your elementary students training course sounds like every child’s worst nightmare, if you don’t mind me saying so, Laura.
One thing I always tell my kids (what Americans would call ‘straight-A students’) is that school isn’t about ‘teaching’ you stuff (ask any child what they learned today…), but about keeping you busy while your parents are at work and instilling the virtues of a future citizen – getting along with others, obeying rules, etc.
Call me a cynic, I’m sure someone will. But I was a child who believed, did my best, and still got crappy grades. Whereas my kids, with a nod and a wink from me, are doing very well, now they understand that they’re in a factory designed to waste their time while sorting the privileged from the under-privileged.
Pinocchio! A child who escaped!
I’ve started to will him onwards.
Run little boy, run!
Laura says
Daniel,
I never did get a chance to participate in the tutoring sessions, as the schools here shut down mid-March, but I do see your point about these sessions being every studentās worst nightmare! However, there were rewards for passing to the next level, and also the implicit reward of spending one-on-one time with a fun adult! But seriously, I just never thought about any of this until this morning. I do know they were having success with the program I described, but was the program necessarily producing students who enjoy reading? Thatās a very different question indeed! How do you help struggling readers enjoy reading without all the fluency and accuracy drilling? Do you think some fluency drills are necessary, but that they need to be balanced with reading for fun? And how does a student learn to read for fun if theyāre struggling?Any thoughts? Youāve made me think deeply today about the way we teach children to read in our school systems…
Daniel says
How do you help struggling readers enjoy reading without all the fluency and accuracy drilling?
Youāve made me think deeply today about the way we teach children to read in our school systems
I’d suggest you start by defining what you mean by ‘read’, Laura.
Then, if still unsure, think about what value that activity brings to your own life, and how you acquired the skills and experience that lead you to where you are now. Then skip back say forty years (I know we’re the same age) and examine your reading behaviour as a young teenager. What got you there? Then a further five years back to mid-elmentary school, where where you at that point? And gradually back to your first experiences with text, and even before that, when books were just heavy lumps of paper with interesting smells.
For me, it was always about, and all about, wanting to know what happened NEXT. I have no idea whatsoever what you mean by “fluency and accuracy drilling”.
Lynne F says
Daniel love your last comment about wanting to know what happened next, totally agree,That is me! When i was young and mum put the light out I was the one with a torch under the blankets because i wanted to know what happened next”. Even now i think I will read to the end of the chapter then slip into the next to find out what happened next. Now up to chapter 10 of the full version of Pinocchio, I really enjoying the experience of reading Italian books, It is certianly getting easier .
Daniel says
Ciao Lynne F,
Yes, it’s the motor-force for bookworms everywhere, wanting to know what happens next. But you know, I’ve also built a business around the power of narrative, in several ways. Most obviously, the ‘easy readers’ – I know for a fact that I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, so I reason that this will keep other language-learners interested, too. And for those who don’t like reading? The regular one-to-one lessons with an online teacher are a real life example of the same thing – you chat for 30 minutes or so with someone who, in time, becomes your friend, or at least features in your social circle. That’s exactly what language is FOR. Thirdly, there are my articles, which are in theory supposed to be keeping people interested and motivated, but in actual fact… well, people either like them or they don’t – the ones that don’t, unsubscribe. The ones that do, keep opening them – to find out what happens next, I suppose, or because I’m a virtual member of their social circle. We have some people who have been with us for seven or eight years!
Insomma, the power of narrative, the importance of knowing what people around you are doing, two basic human impulses which are inherent in the process of learning and using any language!
Steph says
As a reading teacher I always felt that forcing beginning readers to read out loud was a form of humiliation. I think adults, teachers and parents, make kids do it so they can correct them. As we are all finding as we learn to read in Italian without a dictionary, working towards fluency by reading in your head nonstop is not only more rewarding, itās actually fun!!ā
Daniel says
But encouraging children to participate in story-telling need not be a bore, right Steph? The teacher just needs to be sensitive to the fact that different kids will likely have different abilities. The ones who read well can read. The ones who don’t can be encourged to predict what will happen next, comment on events, etc.
True reading, though, is when the story is being told in your own head, by merit of the fact that you are able to decode words written by others in a way that seems effortless and doesn’t prevent you from ‘inhabiting’ the narrative.
Christine says
Ciao Book Club members – have enjoyed the discussion around reading aloud – thanks for your contributions. I am still an enthusiast for reading some passages aloud ( and it is not boring ) to help make the text āliveā and show their drama – also to highlight humour. Am reading purely for pleasure so no dictionary but have read an English version years ago. Anybody else find it a bit of a dark tale ? (more Grimm than Shrek)
Daniel says
Anybody else find it a bit of a dark tale ? (more Grimm than Shrek)
There are lighter moments, Chirstine. Without giving too much away, the puppet master is a monster at first, but then has a complete change of heart… And Pinocchio himself is torn between wanting to be a model child and look after his old dad, and wanting to get rich quick and/or simply enjoy life.
Laura says
I read Chapters 10-13 this morning, e io sono fuori di me dalla felicita perche qualcuno di speciale appare nel Capitolo 13!!! Ć tutto quello che ho da dire, ma io sono davvero emozionata! If you havenāt read Chapter 13 yet, just wait!
Actually I will say one more thing in response to Christine and Daniel ā I find the story to be both funny and dark at the same time. Although there always seems to be someone ready to swindle or harm Pinocchio in each chapter, and although Pinocchio NEVER seems to learn from his mistakes, Iām still laughing the whole way through because of the way the author describes the characters in the story ā for example, il Gato and la Volpe in Chapters 12 and 13. I can just picture Collodi in front of a group of children, making them a little frightened in parts, but then getting them laughing again a moment later. What a great storyteller!
Daniel says
Pinocchio NEVER seems to learn from his mistakes
Not yet, Laura, but we still have twenty-three chapters to go!
I think we’re reading at about the same pace, by the way (I’ve had a busy week.)
The wolf and the cat are so famous here in Italy. I mentioned I’d got to that point and my wife spontaneously started singing a pop song from God knows when in her youth featuring those very characters from P.
Laura says
Thatās funny that thereās an Italian pop song about the cat and the fox! Yes, they are extremely memorable characters! And the puppet master reminds me of the Pirate King (in the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta The Pirates of Penzance) who is supposedly such a tyrant but has a soft spot for orphans, and so whenever the Pirate King gets ready to attack, everyone turns out to be an orphan boy!
Laura says
By the way, did Red Lobster originate in Italy?!! We have a lot of them here is the United States! Lol
Daniel says
Not sure, Laura, but I think the name of the inn that Pinocchio visits is the red ‘prawn’ or ‘shrimp’. Lobster in Italian is ‘aragosta’.
‘Gambero rosso’ is a popular name for restaurants and pizzerias in Italy – there’s even a publishing company here in Bologna, which admits to having been inspired by Pinocchio.
Mary says
I totally agree with the comments about the story being funny and dark at the same time. I enjoy the fantasy, but find myself quite disconcerted when something horrible happens. Not only do I get frustrated with Pinocchio’s gullibility, I’m relieved when he is safe again, annoyed at his inability to follow advice and despair over his sheer laziness.. I get so involved that I end up forgetting that it is a “fairy tale” about a wooden puppet and talking animals.
I do particularly enjoy the narrator’s ironic comments in the full version.
I have used the Easy Reader version in conjunction with the full version to make sure I have got the story straight, to have the opportunity to reinforce key words by simply reading them again and for the sheer pleasure of seeing how quickly I can do it!
Laura says
Mary,
I understand what you mean about getting so involved in the story. Yesterday I read 10 chapters in the original version, because I couldnāt put it down! Iām to the point where I want to skim the last chapters just to see what happens at the end, but then I know Iāll miss out on the narratorās ironic commentaries, which I love so much. That irony is what gives the story so much character and depth.
Not sure how far along you are, but the part of the storyline that involves the cat and the fox just keeps getting better and better. I wonder if the two of them will pop up again at the end of the story. Iām on Chapter 24 now, and of course havenāt been doing much work in the house lately, as I read Italian slower than the rest of you. But it seems the more I read, the easier it becomes! I really do need to study some verb tenses after this book, though! š¤£
Laura says
Daniel,
Iām starting to wonder if Pinocchio is having a long dream and heās about to wake up?!! Maybe he was a real boy all along! I donāt remember the Disney ending, so I have no clue how things will turn out! Iām on Chapter 30 now, but I have to stop as there are other things to do today. I must admit I liked the format of Il Nome, where each reassunto was released after a couple days, because then I had to wait to read the next section, as I didnāt have the book. Of course I know that was because people were reading long parts of the original novel. As for me, I have no discipline when it comes to wanting to see how things end! Iām one of those people who will binge-watch all the episodes of a Netflix series in a couple days. Of course the lockdown doesnāt help as thereās not much else to do!
By the way, how are things in Italy right now? Here in the US, our states are beginning to lift some restrictions finally, but who knows how that will turn out. The media has hyped us so full of fear daily that I wonder if I will ever feel comfortable returning to normal life again. Although Iām sure a lot of people feel that way right now. As for the pandemic, I wish we were all having a dream and we were about to wake up from it!
As for Pinocchio, āDisgraziatamente, nella vita dei burattini, cāĆØ sempre un ma, che sciupa ogni cosa…ā That seems to sum up the story so far!
As for my reading skill in Italian, itās growing by leaps and bounds, thanks to our book club! After Pinocchio I plan to order more ebooks from your website! Iām so happy to be learning another language in such a fun way!
Saluti e salute a tutti,
Laura
Daniel says
You’re way ahead of me, Laura. I’m stalled at chapter 13 or 14. But great to hear that your reading in Italian is improving. When you’re done with the book, why not search out the film or audio adaptions and build your listening skills, too?
And/or…
Our next ‘easy reader’ is going to be ‘Uno, nessuno e centomila’ (the original is available free online if you search for the title + .pdf). You could start on that one.
Laura says
Both are very good ideas! My listening skills definitely need work, and the next easy reader sounds good, too.
I just finished Capitolo 32. Febbre del somaro! What an imagination Collodi had! Reading the header for Capitolo 33, I canāt even imagine how this all is going to get tied up neatly at the end! I think my treat today is to try to finish, because Iām overcome with curiosity to find out what happens! At this point, I donāt even know if Pinocchio will ever see Geppetto again.
A presto!
Chris says
Well I have missed soooo much in the comment thread!!!!! Up to chapter 23 and ytrimb my hardest not to use the dictionary.
I continually “hear” Daniel saying studying and learning are different. I am enjoying the reading as reading though do ask myself occasionally why is a sentence constructed in a certain way.
Pinocchio is one naughty little boy who never seems to learn his lesson and cries when he’s in trouble! Despite people continually trying to help him and steer him home he gets distracted. He’s too young to understand yesterday if something seems too good to be true then it probably is. The cat and the fox convincing him that his 4 pieces of gold can become 2 thousand. Also , too trusting ……… the 2nd time he meets the cat and the fox he falls for the ” come back later for your money”. He has a lot to learn.
There is pretty dark stuff in this text- Pinocchio being hung, a bake that laughs itself to death. Whatever next! Far from the Pinocchio story I remember but enjoying the read.
Also reading the easy reader when I get to that point in the original I read the assunto. Unbelievable how much work goes into consolidating so many chapters into 1 in an easy reader!!!
Off to carry on the read. Grazie a tutti š
Laura says
Just found this online. Very interesting…
āThe Adventures of Pinocchio was originally published in serial form in the Giornale per i bambini, one of the earliest Italian weekly magazines for children, starting from 7 July 1881. (The) original, serialized version (ended with) Chapter 15. At the request of his editor, Collodi added chapters 16ā36 … making the story more suitable for children. In February 1883, the story was published in a single book with huge success.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Pinocchio
In another article I read that āCollodiās publishers forced him to extend the story.ā If you havenāt read Capitolo 15 yet, youāll see why when you read it! Lol
I also found this:
āAlthough attracted by order, discipline, and structured educational practices, Carlo Collodi was highly suspicious of the programs initiated after the unification of Italy with the goal of āmaking the Italian people Italianāā¦ because he saw them as a threat to individuality and personal freedom … This tension between obedience and individualism allows Pinocchio to be read as a tale of both transgression and the necessity for conformity.ā
https://www.google.com/amp/s/itspossiblelab.com/2016/06/16/the-adventures-of-pinocchio/amp/
Very interesting stuff! Apparently Pinocchio, as well as being very entertaining tale for children, had a lot of adult subtext lurking under the surface.
minou says
Buonasera a tutti. So many wonderful reflections since I’ve last checked in! OK. I am short on time so I will have to stoop to mostly english today, scuzami per favore
.
(1) I am so valuing learning about things italian in the BC (per esempio, come sono famosi la Volpe e il Gatto in italia, e Red Lobster vs Red shrimp! – questi, complimenti di Laura e Daniel) Here’s my QUESTION: i thought MANGIAFUOCO could eat the mouton raw because he had an internal cooker hence his name. But then in next chapter his “true” name is revealed as MANGIAFOCO. IS THERE SOME ITALIAN FOLKLORE OR PUN THERE?
(2) To beat or not to beat a dead horse (Am. idiom) — the topic of reading out loud vs silently. Lots of interesting comments; there sure seem reasons for both. I myself treasure memories of reading out loud to and of being read to; now, learning italian solo in the time of COVID, I find reading out loud for my audience of 1 particularly comforting. I also learned a lot and reflected upon your dissection of the topic, Daniel. So, now i am more aware of choosing one or the other. For easier bits and for skimming, the silent reading is better and faster. When I get to a hard bit I burst out in – not song – in voce (inspired by Christine, May 7). And like Patricia L. (May 6), reading out loud helps me stay focused.
(3) The dark and the light! Ah-ha! the world of fairy tales. According to history of fairy tales, they pretty much all had dark beginnings, and they get continuously sanitized as they are passed on. What I’m wondering is: WAS THERE AN EARLIER MYTH IN ITALIA WHICH INSPIRED COLLODI’S PINOCCHIO?
A presto.
Laura says
Minou,
I didnāt even notice the subtle difference between the names Mangiafuoco and Mangiafoco, but apparently both fuoco and foco mean fire.
I think you and I should coauthor a book called Learning Italian in the Time of COVID!
Imparare lāitaliano ai tempi di COVID sounds a little like Love in the Time of Cholera by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Our book could be a great success! Ha ha!
A presto!
Laura
Laura says
Last night I finished Capitolo 36, and since then Iāve been reflecting on the story, especially after finding out that Collodiās intention was to end it with Chapter 15. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20, but looking back, for me there was a definite shift in the tone of the story after Chapter 15. I remember laughing so hard through all the chapters up to that point āexcept for Chapter 15, as that one was pretty harsh and even as an adult, I wouldnāt have wanted the story to end there! But Collodiās satirical style came shining through in those first chapters, so for me they were the most entertaining and irreverent. Then around Chapter 19 or 20 I started to think, āIs this ever going to end?ā as one bad thing after another kept happening. Of course I was still entertained and wanting to see what eventually became of Pinocchio, but I definitely enjoyed those first 14 chapters the most. Did anyone else feel that shift in the tone of the story? And then I must admit that I found the ending a little disappointing and cliche. Just curious if anyone had any similar thoughts?
P.S. Another interesting fact I found is that after the Bible, ādepending on who you ask and which resource you use, Pinocchio is either the second or third most translated book in history!ā
christine says
Ciao Laura – yes I noticed that the chapters seemed to have become longer, and maybe not so witty, so interesting to know that the story was extended by request. Must say the ending of chapter fifteen made me search for another “kinder” version when I was reading the tale to my own children. (I tended to read ahead.)
Maybe the ideas around Masonic rituals have credence and the tussle over independence versus education by the state. I am wondering at the literacy and education levels of the population at large in the late nineteenth century, not to mention the levels of superstition? A very strong message seems to be get an education ( am up to chapter 34) or be a “goose” – I have no problem with being corrected.
Christine
Tracy says
I am enjoying your bookclub and comments by all. I have just started to re read Pinocchio with you all, as I read it years ago at university. At that time I wrote a paper discussing Collodi’s use of Masonic symbolism , which was an interesting and not widely explored theory.
Laura says
Tracy,
Your paper sounds very interesting! Can you tell us more about it, and about the Masonic symbolism?
Laura
Laura says
Tracy,
I just looked up some articles online related to Pinocchio and Masonic symbolism, and found a very interesting article which also answers Minouās question about earlier stories that might have inspired parts of Pinocchio. I had no idea that this book was SO deep! Although the fact that Collodi originally wanted to end the tale at Chapter 15 does call into question whether the story was originally meant to be about reaching illumination and enlightenment, or whether it was meant to show that the majority of the populace never arrive at that high state!
Hereās a clip from the article, which suggests that Walt Disney, with all the details he added to the story, was also a Mason!
āSeen through the eyes of an initiate, Pinocchioās story, instead of being a series of random adventures, becomes a deeply symbolic spiritual allegory. Details in the movie that are seemingly meaningless suddenly reveal an esoteric truth or at least a brutally honest social commentary. Inspired by metaphysical classics such as The Metamorphoses and Jonah and the Whale, the storyās author, Carlo Collodi, wrote a modern-day tale of initiation, which is the most important aspect of Masonic life. Although Walt Disneyās allegiance to Freemasonry has always been disputed, the choice of this story as the second animated movie ever created by the studio is very telling. Many symbolic details added into the movie manifest a great understanding of the underlying occult meaning of Collodiās book. Considering the numerous re-releases of Pinocchio and its worldwide success one can say that the entire world has witnessed his path to illumination, but very few fully understood it.ā
https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/the-esoteric-interpretation-of-pinocchio/
Iām still liking my interpretation that Pinocchio always was a real boy having a dream from which he wakes up at the end! Sort of like the movie The Matrix, although the main character in the Matrix wakes up in the middle of the story. If Pinocchio always was a real boy, it also goes along with the teachings of many religions, which emphasize that the world is not our true home, but instead a type of testing ground, and that when we pass from it, we wake up from the dream to enter our true divine spiritual essence.
I think thatās enough deep thinking for me for today!
Laura
Tracy says
Laura
The Masonic aspect is quite fascinating when you look a little deeper into it. Whether or not that is how Collodi meant it to be interpreted it definitely adds another a level to the story.
I like your Matrix idea too – perhaps that has some Masonic influence too?!!
Tracy
Robert says
Could you post a copy of your paper on a (blog) site (or wherever else). I promise you i would read it, Tracy!
Anna Marie says
I am just joining this book club and I loved reading all these comments. I am only on Chapter 1 right now so I have a lot of catching up to do, but I am a beginner so it might take me awhile. I read the first chapter of the easy reader and even had some trouble with it. I am going to try very hard not to look up words I don’t know. I’m glad I’m starting with this book since I feel I know some of the story and the original has some pictures which I hope will help.
Daniel says
Good luck, Anna Marie!
Chris says
In bocca al lupo Anne Marie š
Mary says
Wow! Such thought provoking comments!
Thanks, Tracy, for your comment on Masonic Symbolism. Nothing along those lines had occurred to me.
I found myself wanting to know more about what was happening in Italy at the time. Bearing in mind “Pinocchio” was first published in 1881, (only 10 years after full unification), I gather that as a brand new country, Italy was very much trying to find its feet. A lot of people were living in abject poverty. There was lots of popular dissatisfaction, violent crime, vendettas and strikes, bandits in the countryside…maybe that is why Pinocchio’s readers are being encouraged to follow his example and learn to behave well for the greater good.
Carlo Collodi was well educated. He started work in a bookshop at 18 and wrote for newspapers and for literature, music and theatre magazines, so he had the opportunity to come across a huge variety of reading material, from Grimm’s fairy tales (the fox and the cat) through picaresque literature to popular children’s stories of the time in which dolls come alive. However, maybe Pinocchio is the only one whose nose grows when he lies.
Yes, I do agree, the last few chapters are harder going and not as enjoyable…..maybe Carlo Collodi’s heart wasn’t in it…maybe he didn’t want to write a happy ending…
christine says
Mary – Thank you for pointing out that Pinocchio was published just ten years after unification – sometimes it is hard to place stories in their historical perspective. So, Italy was enduring many challenges., and hence quite a didactic piece by Collodi. I think any darkness may have reflected the times. I agree that the last several chapters are not as enjoyable – so much repetition of what had gone on before – I wonder if that is how kids in the 1880s would have viewed it? I reckon it is hard to extricate ourselves from the very visual world of screens – in the 1880s one would have had mainly one’s imagination and a few illustrations. Was an enjoyable read all the same! š
Christine
Robert Youngblood says
Possible reply to Daniel’s wondering whether Collodi drew on historical tales which might have stimulated his Pinocchio figure and his transformation from a knotty-pine stick into a “living” being:
I don’t have my volumes at hand but think i read a story in the collection about the transformation of an inanimate thing into an animate being in the astounding collection (in 3 volumes) of “Fiabe italiane” by the great Italo Calvino. A single-volume (abridged version?) of the folk-tales came out before the turn of the last century and should still be available.
I haven’t read it in English but saw that Penguin has recently published a selection in English of Giambattista Basile’s classic 17th century tales, “Lo cunti de li cunti” (as the title shows, originally written in Neapolitan dialect/language, now known as “Il pentamerone” and as a classic available in standard Italian).