As I confessed a while back, my quest to improve my listening in French, and so motivate you guys to improve your listening in Italian, has got a bit off track lately.
January is often a draggy month. If you’re like me, you may have taken on too many new committments for the new year. Plus, getting back to work or school after the holidays can be a shock. And the weather is lousy (OK, probably not in Australia). And there are colds and viruses going around.
Not surprising then that I did nothing whatsoever to practice my French listening for several weeks.
I’ve been feeling pretty bad about it, but haven’t abandoned the idea completely, even if it is professionally rather embarassing..
As I wrote here I’ve been keeping my interest in French alive by looking at Le Monde every day. Conveniently for me, the French head of state has been caught in flagrante with an attractive blonde. Difficult NOT to be interested, really.
I discover that learning a language is like learning to juggle
Decades back, I abandoned a well-paid civil service career to travel in India with a girlfriend.
While there, I learnt to juggle, which isn’t that hard but does take plenty of practice. Getting to the point where I could keep three balls in the air for minutes at a time took weeks.
One thing I noticed was that I dropped more balls as each practice session progressed, only to do miraculously better at the beginning of the next session, usually some days later.
Practice seemed to make me temporarily worse , but then better in the longer term. Each time I tried again after a break of several days, I was struck by the improvement, which was noticable enough to seem almost magical.
Anyway, this morning, a particularly slow day in the office, I FINALLY got back to the French listening.
I’d planned to be doing the A2 practice material by this stage, but I’m way behind schedule, so today I thought I’d just finish off the last of the A1 stuff, and then tomorrow…
So computer on, and straight into the A1 listening test!
And guess what? I aced it!
100% correct over the four exercises, and I was sure of almost all of the answers on just the first listening (this particular exam allows two tries).
What’s more, testing myself in my head, it seems that recalling the French I studied 30 years ago now seems a little easier. I can remember more than I could a couple of weeks ago. For instance, I can count to 10…
The ‘spacing effect’
Learning to juggle (or play golf, or any physical skill), and recalling words in a foreign language, are both areas in which the ‘spacing effect’ has been demonstrated.
Basically that means that if you ‘space’ the time and effort you put into learning something new over a period (initial effort, revision, further revision, etc.), the results are likely to be better than if you invest the same energy in one intensive burst.
I guess we all know, from our own experiences of education, that what you learn cramming for an exam lasts but a short time, while what you learn in a more paced, applied way lasts longer and feels more effortless.
And the lesson is…?
Having a shitty month at work, or getting the ‘flu and not studying for a bit, is not necessarily going to be such a bad thing in terms of improving your Italian listening.
As long as you can retain your motivation and so get back to it sooner or later (newspapers, TV programs, even language classes), you may be surprised to find that you get come back even stronger than when you left off.
Has anyone else noticed this ‘spacing effect’ working for complex skills like listening? Leave a comment!
P.S. Hi to Arit, who e-mailed asking (politely) why the hell I hadn’t written anything for a week. Just what I needed, Arit. Thanks!
John Thomson says
Hello Daniel
An interesting article, in my copy of Uber das gedachtnis untersuchunchen etc. etc., 1885 I have learned the “blow it” method.
Depending on the degree of difficulty I encounter, lets say in declining the passato remoto of irregular verbs, I either urge myself to say “blow it, I’ll watch the match” or “blow it I’ll roast some chestnuts” then return after the predefined spacing interval.
By the way I have just come across a rather flowery parola nuova – ininterrottamente, Ho deciso usare questa parola ( copy and paste) ininterrottamente
Cheers
John
Come si dice “tongue in cheek”
July Rice says
This is a test. I’ve been having problems and hope if this gets through, I can send a real comment.
ruth stephens says
I’ve been having problems too, july – trying to respond to your comment and now i’ve lost it!
Help, please Daniel. How do you make a back up copy and email it to you? the exact message asked me for a valid email address which I had given.
Daniel says
Seems you managed it!!
July Rice says
Hello. Sorry to be a pest, but my technician over the pond wants me to try the capcha number ços I’m having lots of problems..
Daniel says
Not a problem.
July Rice says
My brilliant technician believes this will be the final test. Bye.
Daniel says
Posted on behalf of Arit:
Dear Daniel,
So great to hear from you. I imagined you might be busy – but given that we your students know you to be able to juggle innumerable tasks at once, I was also slightly apprehensive re so many bugs flying around in the UK (might be different in Italy).
Even greater news to know that you are back on the road for C2 French! Now I’ve heard it said that if one learns a language and then leaves it for a while and returns one tends to have improved even though no work had been done on the language during the break. Could this be the case with you scoring 100% or have you been secretly working hard??
I myself (inspite of my laziness) did some French today. I did some readings / watched a film and thought I share this with you. The first article I read was:
http://mobile.sudinfo.be/905601/article/regions/charleroi/actualite/2014-01-18/olivier-et-anais-avaient-vole-60000-euros-au-tec-charleroi-avant-de-dispar
Then I read:
http://mobile.sudinfo.be/905631/article/actualite/monde/2014-01-18/valerie-trierweiler-sa-sortie-de-l-hopital-serait-imminente
After this I read a sad story about a 3 year old boy who had been missing in the UK – in case you don’t want to read a sad story – but if you don’t mind, it is:
http://mobile.sudinfo.be/905661/article/actualite/monde/2014-01-18/disparition-de-mikaeel-3-ans-a-edimbourg-un-corps-decouvert-et-la-maman-arretee
To recover from the sad story I watched a film on YouTube. I like this film because the French is clearly pronounced and thus easier to understand:
http://youtu.be/fiI-nsN9vCI
So what do you think of the above??
Are there Italian films in which the Italian is clearly pronounced?
Best regards
Daniel says
Ciao John,
Blow it.
Daniel
Katy Wheeler says
Hello John and Daniel
After John’s Very Big Italian Word, I couldn’t resist putting here my favourite word to pronounce in italian so far. It’s “Zattere”, a vaporetto stop in Venice. I’m not very good at rolling my rs (in other words I can’t do it), so I get by with a sort of tongue flip in the d or t area of the palate. It sounds quite impressive and feels good to say with the z and the t also in the word. I could walk round the house saying it for hours (making sure there is nobody else in at the time). And of course, it was “my” vaporetto stop while I was at school in Venice last year, so all in all, I feel quite proprietorial about it. 🙂
I’d like to hear about other people’s favourite Italian words so far, and why they appeal. That would be fun. It might even tempt me to start muttering other words under my breath around the house apart from “Zattere” …
Daniel says
Zattera in sailing is the word for the inflatable life raft which you see strapped on the deck of yachts… They cost a fortune, and are obligatory.
Talking of words with ‘z’, my favourite word has got to be the one that ends with ‘zzo’. Sorry, can’t right the whole thing as it’s very rude!
Ruth Stephens says
Pazzo? Mazzo? Puzzo??
Ma bravo Daniel,che, dopo aver reso conto come piu’ difficile e’ di studiare la lingua di un paese in quale non abiti, che non senti parlata ne se stesso parli spesso, hai ripreso la sfida e non ci hai rinunciato. Se tu ci avessi rinunciato come avessimo senti to noi? Forse qualche avrebbe smesso di fare i comment. E senza i comment ci sarebbe stato un monologue solo!
E” un buon idea di leggere Le Monde. Non e’ sorprendente che francese ti sembra piu’ facile adesso che 30 anni fa. Nel frat tempo sei venuto alle prese con una lingua simile. Pero’ e’ sorprendente che avevi dimenticato come contare a dieci!
Phew, Daniel! If you only knew what a struggle I’ve had writing this in Italian with my new tablet! It kept suggesting alternatives to words it didn’t recognise – which was most of them. So, if there are a few additional spaces……
Daniel says
No, none of those words…
You’re right, Italian and French are very similar, so knowing one is a big help.
The issue with numbers 1-10, and other very simple things you’d think were impossible to forget, is a quite common result of learning another language after the first one. The one you knew before sort of goes ‘dormant’ and while you may be able to understand it, it can be hard to find even the simplest words when you want to speak.
There’s an interesting discussion about this here.
Daniel stephens says
Any else had problems posting a comment today?
You have to complete the little maths problem (use a number, not a word). It’s an anti-spam measure.
Please email me to report any problems!!
Daniel
John Thomson says
Ciao Daniel
Non ho niente problema. lo spamtrap e una buona idea
Katy, la mia parola preferita e “sfortunatamente”, each syllable demanding the same stress, it rolls off the tongue. By the way, being Scottish I have no problems with my “rrrrrrs”
Ruth was asking about my pig’s trotters. I finally bought some, sfortunatamente not a success !
the lentils were nicely flavoured bur after 3 hours cooking there was hardly any ‘meat; to add to them. We must have pigs with very trim ankles, but at 89 pence for four not a great waste of money
I am awaiting a delivery of boil in the bag zampone (circa 15 pounds sterling) from an online UK store, I will let you know how I get on.
I love the concept of favourite words
Daniel my spacing days are over, off to tackle the B1 work book (sadly very few chestnuts left and Everton do not play till Monday
Ciao a tutti
John
Ruth Stephens says
Sorry to hear your pigs’ trotters were not a success, John. You can’t go wrong with the vac packed ones, though. They are really sausagemeat stuffed into the empty leg/trotter so have plenty of taste. I followed the suggestion on the box and served it “ubriaco” ie sliced , doused in red wine and put in the oven until most of the wine is absorbed. Went well with the lentils and my italian guest seemed to appreciate it .
Daniel Stephens says
TECHNICAL PROBLEMS???
July just wrote to me saying she can’t post here today. She’s the second one. Here’s my reply to her…
——————————————————————————————————–
Several people have mentioned that there’s a problem, but I’m having trouble replicating it.
Perhaps if you have time to try again, and experience the same problem, you could let me know:
– which browser you’re using (i.e. Internet Explorer, Chrome, Safari)
– the exact wording of any error message
If you still have the same problem, make a back up copy of your message and email it to me. I can then try it for you.
Daniel
Daniel Stephens says
July,
I’ve now replicated your problem!
If you are getting a message saying “Please fill in the form” it is because you’ve missed the Captcha (the maths question designed to stop automated spam). It’s right below the website box, and above the box where you write your comment!
Daniel
July Rice says
Buon giorno! Ruth’s Italian is really good. Sono gelosa! I am impressed with her ability to use various verb tenses. Auguroni! I hope I will get to her level soon. My reading comprehension is so much better than my listening and speaking skillsl. Anyone else like that?
Arit may be interested in an Italian film with English sub titles, Mid-August Lunch (Pranzo di Ferragosto) by Gianni Di Gregorio.
I too have found that taking a break between assignments helps the information settle in my brain, The other day I was having a quasi conversation (I’m not up to real dialogue yet) and I used the word “impegno” aptly. After saying it, I asked myself, “Where the Dickens did that come from?” Obviously, it had been relaxing in my grey matter for a few weeks and popped up when I needed it.
Some of my least favorite Italian words are the verbs ‘tradurre”, “costruire””, sostituire”. I can’t pronounce the r’s correctly unless I break the word down. I say, , twadwiwe, sustituwewe, etc. Absolutamente ridicolo!
During a basic level Italian class, the instructor told us (all women students) never to use the word “casseruola” – pentola was preferred. Either she was very picky about the correct word for kitchen pots and pans or the word sounded like, and reminded her of something else, and she had a dirty mind!
A presto. July
ruth stephens says
Grazie july. Sei troppo gentile! My italian should be much better than it is, considering how long i’ve been studying it – albeit somewhat halfheartedly – the old motivation problem! Like you, my main problem is with listening and speaking and I was glad of Daniel’s listening initiative to give me a push but I don’t seem to be making much progress. Still it’s great we can commiserate with each other.
As for speaking, we can’t , sfortunatamente, practise that on this site but maybe I should have some more sessions with Lucia. i had the initial, free, one and lucia was brilliant but it was a bit demoralizing for me. However, as i am planning a trip to italy in the Spring i now have an incentive.
Daniel says
There IS a way that we could organise speaking practice on this site. I’m checking on the technology right now. Is anyone else interested??
John Thomson says
mi conta dentro Daniel
sei quasi la
Ruth, We can all help and motivate each other, Sono d’accordo con te, Daniel’s latest listening project seems to have spurred everybody on
slow progress, which applies to me as well, is still progress
By the way I am expecting a delivery of my Zampone today, courtesy of U.P.S. I will let you know how I get on
One tiny question of Daniel
How should we end our posts ? salutti, auguri, ciao abbracci etc. etc.
Also I have decided to rework workbook A2 rather than go on to B1 I have also decided to include at least some italian in any post from now on – communicate, communicate comunicate even !
Auguri
John
Ruth Stephens says
Ciao John
Hai ragione – il progresso, anche se sia lento e’ sempre progresso e e’ buono che possiamo incorriaggiare un ad altro (?). Ho perso l’opportunita’ di partecipare nel il nuovo Webinar questo venerdi’ ma spero che potro’ farlo la prossima volta.
Aspetto con interessa di sentire come e’ andato con il zampone. Mi sembra che tua moglie sia molto lunga soffrente (!).
Saluti e buon appetito
Ruth
July Rice says
John ha chiesto come finire un messaggio e-mail. Molte persone usano il frase
– a presto – ho notato. Non vedo l’ora di parliamo insieme oggi, ma sono sicura che mi sentirò timida. Spesso, quando parlo con una persona Italiano, dimentico tutte i parole che conosco. Dopo, voglio dare mi stessa un bel calcio. Anche, penso che e più difficile parlare al telefono quando non ci conosciamo. E vero?
Ruth Stephens says
Yes, I’m interested. Also intrigued as to how; would it be via Skype, as with your online lessons or something like the listening exercises where we answer questions verbally and then get feedback? But as there seems to be a prospective teacher I guess the former.
Daniel says
Guess it’ll be like a virtual class, or meeting. The technology is basically similar to that used for conference calls and the like. Assuming the Internet connection is good enough, it permits the sharing of audio and video feeds, presentations, and so on.
The lessons we offer via Skype have the advantage of being 1-1, meaning that you can schedule them for a convenient time and cover precisely what you want. The new project is aimed at groups.
July Rice says
I’d be interested in communicating verbally on line. (But I might clam up initially, not wanting to appear foolish.)
Daniel says
I think that thought will cross everyone’s mind, July. But not to worry. Paolo’s very nice, and experienced. He’ll be encouraging, but not force anyone to embarrass themselves, I’m sure.
July Rice says
I certainly will join in – what a missed opportunity not to! No one will see me turning red.
July Rice says
hello I think my brillant technical person solved the problem.
Daniel says
What was the issue, July?
July Rice says
My problem was with the capcha number. It was not working but it seems to be working now.
Daniel says
Another of those mysteries of the Internet… Today it’s broke, tomorrow it works. Oh well…
July Rice says
Hello we are just trying a second message. Sorry for this.