L’autore: Umberto Eco (1932-2016) fu un letterato e filosofo italiano esperto di semiotica e filosofia medievale.
Il titolo: “Il nome della rosa” è un riferimento alla filosofia medievale, in particolar modo alla corrente nominalista. Secondo il Nominalismo, l’intelletto umano può conoscere solo i nomi delle cose e non la loro vera essenza.
L’ambientazione: la storia si svolge in un’abbazia dell’ordine benedettino nel 1327. Si tratta di un’epoca in cui i due grandi poteri politici, il papato e l’impero, erano in perenne lotta. L’imperatore Ludovico difendeva i francescani, sostenitori della regola della povertà, contro gli sfarzi e gli eccessi del Papa e della Curia.
Il protagonista: Guglielmo da Baskerville è un frate francescano, ambasciatore dell’Imperatore Ludovico. Il nome Guglielmo gli deriva dal grande filosofo inglese Guglielmo di Ockham, che era un empirista e un grande osservatore della natura, proprio come il protagonista del libro. La scelta di Baskerville come luogo di provenienza, allude ad Arthur Conan Doyle, autore de “Il mastino dei Baskerville” e maestro del romanzo giallo. Guglielmo da Baskerville, in effetti, è un investigatore che deve risolvere un caso insieme al suo giovane aiutante Adso da Melk, una sorta di Watson.
Le opere di Aristotele: la filosofia cristiana medievale si fondava sul grande sistema filosofico di Aristotele. Egli aveva indagato tutti gli ambiti del sapere ed era, per i sapienti del Medioevo, il punto di riferimento della conoscenza. Alcune opere di Aristotele sono andate perdute, tra queste, il trattato sulla commedia.
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Daniel says
Ciao everyone! Daniel here. Have fun reading ‘Il nome della rosa’ with us!
For those who already have the book, note that the first section NATURALMENTE UN MANOSCRITTO, deals with how Umberto Eco comes to hear the story, from an old book which publishes the manuscript orignally written by the Dr. Watson figure, Adso. The book is then lost, but fortunately Eco has copied it down by hand, so making his own manuscript of the book of a manuscript, so to speak. Skip it all if you choose too, as it isn’t easy.
Then there’s a useful NOTA which describes how the day was organised in a monastry. This is worth spending time on, as it’s only a page. I’ve turned down the corner, so I can easily go back and refer to it when I can’t remember what time of day ‘prima’, ‘terza’, ‘sesta’ or ‘nona’ is supposed to be. If you only read that today, it’s a start.
And then there’s the PROLOGO, which is the start of Adso’s tale, written in the first person and explaining how he, now an aged monk, came to be adventuring with a medieval detective in the north of Italy back in the day. Skip that too, if you’re feeling uncertain or demotivated.
Which brings us to PRIMO GIORNO / PRIMA (What time is that??), when the action really starts, and the text becomes READABLE!! Promise.
This first slice of the real story is just five pages (pp.29-34 in my edition) and really quite manageable. Try and follow what’s going on, as it’s quite fun, but feel free to skip bits that bog you down.
And if you still have enthusiasm, avanti with PRIMO GIORNO / TERZA…
Douglas Dean says
Daniel,
Those participating in the book club might be interested to know that there is an audio recording of ‘IL NOME DELLA ROSA’ on YouTube at this address : xxx
Thanks for your work on the book club, great idea !
rgds,
Dgls
Daniel says
I took a look, Douglas, but the person who uploaded it to Youtube says straight out that he or she doesn’t own the rights to it. Given that I’m trying my best to respect copyright (the heirs of famous authors need to eat too, presumably), I deleted your link. I’m sure anyone who wants to locate texts, films or audio recordings for this book can do so without my help.
Lynne F says
Daniel found this on RaiPlay radio ,
Il nome della rosa
Moni Ovadia legge Il nome della rosa di Umberto Eco. Ascolta l’audiolibro.
https://www.raiplayradio.it/playlist/2017/12/Il-nome-della-rosa-fd85e6fd-8bcb-4149-b20a-6d48b9c2f0f1.html
Jane Collins says
Gracie Lynne e Daniel.
Valerie says
Can someone in Australia please tell me where I can buy an ebook “Il Nome Della Rosa?”
Tried Kindle, Amazon, Kobo and all Australian ebook online companies. Even Amazon audible ,which I have to pay for and don’t want, will not accept my details to even pay for 1 month so I can al least get this book.
Isabel says
I can’t get one either – seems not a possibility for us >>> spent nearly a whole afternoon searching and as the libraries are closed can”t even request an inter_library loan
Lynne B says
Have you tried IBS.it? They have it as an ebook as well as a physical book. I’m in New Zealand and I got my physical copy from there as Amazon.it no longer ships to NZ.
Sieglind says
Valerie, I had the same problem, so I eventually dropped the idea of an ebook and have now ordered the book from Book Depository. I’m much better with paper when I’m trying to learn anyway 🙂
Sergey says
Hi Sieglind!
I’m Sergey, a longtime club member from Russia.
I’ve read your comment, and the words “I’m much better with paper” make me recall one Alfred Hitchcock’s joke . Te la mando in Italiano (stiamo imparando l’Italiano, vero?)
Due capre mangiano la pellicola di un film tratto da un romanzo di grande successo. A un certo punto una capra dice all’altra: “per me, era meglio il libro”»
Ciao!
Kathy James says
I have just bougt a copy for $19.00 & some cents from Amazon.com.au & I have downloaded the Amazon Audible App which is free, so the total cost isn’t very much- I buy all my books on Amazon & some of them cost much more than this one.
Helen Preston says
Grazie per la spunta Daniel. Ho da molti anni una copia del libro però non l’ho mai letto. Non credo che sia una lettura facile!! Ci vediamo.
Helen
Kathryn James says
HI Daniel. I have ordered the Italian version of Il Nome Della Rosa from Amazon, but it won’t arrive till sometime in May! I tried to buy the copy on the Literature Page-the Easy Italian Reader- but couldn’t find it. Is it still available, please? I am listening to the Rai version but it would be great to have the print as well.
Thanks for your help.
Kathy J
Daniel says
Sorry Kathryn, we don’t sell or distribute any version of ‘Il nome della rosa’ because it is copyright and we have no permission to do so. The ebook cover you see was designed before we realised that, and is being used only as an imagine representing the current book club.
If you read through other people’s comments you can see who has managed to buy a copy of the book and how they managed it.
Martha says
Ciao, Daniel, e grazie! Sto ancora aspettando il mio libro in italiano, quindi questa nota introduttiva è benvenuta. Andiamo!
Baci d’aria (“air kisses?”) a causa la distanza sociale.
Martha
Wendy says
Ciao. Sto leggendo un’estratto sul Kindle per verderer si è troppo difficile o no. Sono a 96% (del’estratto) ma ho cominciato qualche settimana fa.
Steph says
Buon idea. L’ho fatto ancora.
Wendy says
L’ho comparato sul kindle!
Lynne F says
Ciao Daniel , Got my copy, ready for the challenge , the journey begins 🙂
Michael Schultz says
Looking forward to this opportunity.
Thanks.
Gerry M Hancock says
Ciao Daniel
Grazie mille per aver noi ad invitare questa sfida! Non poss vede l’ora!!
Rachel Belgrave says
Ciao Daniel ! Sto leggendo ‘Il Nome della Rosa” in italiano su Kindle, comprato dal famoso A. Ho capito che si tratta di un giallo ! Buonissimo ! mi piace molto . Grazie.
Barbara Paton says
Molto ambizioso! Vedremo. Non ho ancora il libro.
Barbara
Daniel says
Very likely that some online bookseller will give you the first so many pages for free, Barbara.
Anne says
Ciao Daniel! Io ho compro il libro “il nome della rosa” da Amazon Kindle. E io ho il mio dizionario di italiano. Buona fortuna a tutti!
Jane Croucher says
Thanks Daniel! I have been super lazy with my Italian for years, but lockdown has given me the kick up the backside I needed to start getting into it again. I’m looking forward to reading this book and going back to Italy as soon as all this madness is over.
Jane Collins says
Ciao Daniel
Looking forward to being part of the book club. Hopefully it will keep me motivated and my very limited Italian vocabulary will improve. I have ordered the book but it probably won’t arrive for another 2 weeks.
Thomas Vanderslice says
Avendo letto 150 pagine non posso attendere la prossima volta quando ho tempo da leggere. Sfortunatamente I have to skip over the Latin. Ma e un libro molto divertente. Si puo dire ‘a cliffhanger.’
Daniel says
‘Cliffhanger’ – very good, Thomas! I think you and I must be up to about the same point. As soon as I’m done here, I’m off to sit in the sun and crack on with it.
Debra says
Ciao Daniel. Grazie per questo idea. Ho comprato il libro Kindle e anche ho il libro audio di Audible. Sarà difficile per me — il mio italiano è solamente A2/B1…ma ci proverò!!
Claire says
Ciao Daniel e ciao a tutti!
Thanks for organising this book club, I have a shelf full of Italian books and I haven’t got past the first chapter in any of them, so I’m hoping this will keep me motivated to finally read a whole book! I managed to get a copy of the original Italian before the lockdown kicked in so I’m ready to get started!
Daniel says
Then start, Claire. See my introductory comment above on how to avoid the initial boring bits and so demotivation! In an hour or so you could be heading up the hill to the forbidding abbey, and adventure!
Claire says
Apologies for not starting immediately, Daniel. 😉
I have read the introduction now and I found it fairly straightforward. I had to google ‘curia’ but other than that there were only a few words and concepts I didn’t understand, but managed to work out from context or the dictionary as a last resort.
I shall endeavour to leave comments in a correct and timely manner from now on! 😉
Rob Lee says
Ciao Daniel. Ciao tutti. Sono pronto iniziare leggere il romanzo dal mio Kindle. Sono solamente B1 ma perché non provarlo, a causa di coronavirus non c’è nient’altro da fare qui in Irlanda!
Colleen says
THANK YOU for this opportunity. I will begin today. I can read Italian fairly well and understand audios, films,etc. , but my writing skills are very poor! Perhaps I will attempt some comments in Italian eventually.
Jonathan L says
Ciao a tutti. Ho cominciato a leggere il capitolo 1. C’è un sacco di vocabolario che non capisco ma è un’opportunità per me a imparare. Mi ha molto piaciuto Dante, sono pronto per Umberto Eco!
Daniel says
Skip the words you don’t know, Jonathan. You’ll see them again soon…
Naheda Ismail says
Ciao Daniel
ho comprato il libro su Kindle
proverò di leggere con tutti voi
Orlaith says
Ciao Daniel è tutto voi
Ho già comprato il libro da kindle .Vado cominciare leggerlo sta sera.
Grazie mille
Orlaith
Bettina Grieser Johns says
Ciao, Daniel, quella buona idea! Grazie mille! Ho finito Harry Potter e la camera dei segreti qualche settimana fa et da allora mi sono chiesta che leggere dopo – adesso lo conesco! Compraro la versione kindle e cominciaro stanotte!
Alison Ledgerwood says
Grazie Daniel per questa idea. L’ho letto molti anni fa (ma in inglese) e ho gia comminciato a leggerlo sul mio Kindle. Naturalmente in italiano questo volta. Mi sembra che il livello è C2+++++++ ma proverò
Daniel says
The CEFR levels (A1-C2) aren’t really supposed to apply to native-speaker texts or tasks, Alison. And in fact, Il nome della rosa, is extremely hard in parts, but relatively easy elsewhere. Reading strategy tip: learn to notice the difference and, if it’s too much, move on to the next narrative/action part. Who cares about the doctrine?? We want to know who the murderer is!
Margaret says
Ciao, Daniel
Ho comprato il libro qualche settimana fa. Avevo paura che sarebbe troppo difficile per me, ma questa pomeriggio ho cominciato ed ho letto ad alta voce le prime pagine. – nota, prologo. Non mi sono preoccupata di niente e sono stata sorpresa – ho potuto capire abbastanza. Non so come si dice ‘I’m hooked’ in italiano. Non vedo l’ora di leggere Il Primo Giorno – Primo.
Grazie tanto per questa bella idea.
Daniel says
‘I’m hooked’ – we think it doesn’t really translate, Margaret. Maybe “mi sono appassionato”?
Anyway, good idea about reading it aloud, just to get yourself started… Read it aloud rather than focusing on meaning, then turn the page, and before you know it – you’re reading a real Italian book!
Candy Montero says
Daniel,,
Will you give us the ISBN number. I would like to order the book – can’t find it on Amazon (except a used copy for 400 something dollars!)
Thank you
Daniel says
I don’t have an ISBN number, Candy, but I’ve heard that Amazon is closing down any non-essential goods, at least here in Europe. I’d be careful about being ripped off, by scammers.
Other people here have said they’ve got the Kindle ebook without difficulty. If you don’t have a Kindle, perhaps someone you know would lend you one (and buy the ebook on your behalf)? N.b. I don’t get a commission for recommending Kindle or any other publisher, but needs must!
Debra says
Just for everyone’s information, you don’t need an actual Kindle…I have the Kindle app on both my phone and my tablet, and it’s perfect.
Thomas Vanderslice says
You can buy Italian books online at the Internet Bookshop” ibs.it. Book costs are reasonable but shipping via FedEx sono costosi.
Jan says
You can get it from Apple Books – I think I paid £6.99.
Jane Collins says
Hi Jan, I just discovered it on Apple Books for £5.99 which I would have downloaded but I have already ordered a paper copy which is costing £17.99! If I can cancel that order I will download not my iPad.
Val says
The ISBN on my copy is 978-88-452-9683-3
It is published by Bompiani and has reference on the cover to the recent series on TV starring John Turturro, Rupert Everett etc.
Stella Moore says
Thanks for setting this up Daniel. A friend in Italy sent me over a copy as it is much cheaper than in the UK. I already have the English version so that will be really helpful if I get stuck.
Great idea to fill our hours under lockdown.
Simeon Underwood says
Ciao Daniel
Thanks very much for this initiative. I am really looking forward to following through with this and seeing if I can make it all the way to the end with you and the other readers !
It is fair enough to re suggest that we slide over the preliminary stuff. Perhaps though the three or four pages of the second half of the Prologo are also worth a very quick read ? They give us a bit of background on Guglielmo, both his personality and his context.
Elmas says
Ciao Daniel, this fabulous book is on my list,but in my own language , it’s hard for me to order it in original language, I hope this reading book club can help my lack of vocabulary in Italian . Thank you for now .
minou says
Grazie per questa grande idea! Sono un principiante (circa A2) ma provera. A presto – minou
Helen Hensley says
Ciao Daniel. I don’t have the full text, and am so happy to e able to join in with your chapters as they come up. I am oping I can keep up – my skill at reading Italian is not wonderful! But I am improving – thanks to your Easy Readers – and I do hope I can keep up with this
Gazie mille, Helen
Lana Blackburn says
Ciao tutti!
Ecco il link per l’audiolibro pubblicato da Rai: https://www.raiplayradio.it/playlist/2017/12/Il-nome-della-rosa-fd85e6fd-8bcb-4149-b20a-6d48b9c2f0f1.html
Mi sono sfidata e lo ascoltavo mentre camminavo e guidavo. Credetemi, dopo averlo ascoltato, leggere è un sollievo (il mio livello ~ B2 e leggo facilmente le notizie ma libri reali con sforzo). Spero di migliorare la mia conoscenza del Passato Remoto con questo libro (è davvero un incubo per me!).
Daniel says
Many thanks to Lana for the link to the online audio, which being RAI seems totally legitimate, and has the advantage of skipping the hard introductory parts. Anyone has the book but feels a little daunted about starting it, could try to listen AND read at the same time (it starts with PRIMO GIORNO / PRIMA). That should be easier than just listening, and faster than just reading, so at least will move you through the pages fairly rapidly and give a sense of progress.
Alberto says
Ciao Lana.
Anzi per me è più facile leggere libri. Forse perché nei libri il vocabolario si ripete.
Animo!
Mary Wilson says
Hi Daniel. Thanks for setting up the book club. No problem at all getting my kindle copy. I saw the film recently on BBC Two. I enjoyed it, but knowing nothing about the plot, characters or context beforehand I must admit I got a bit confused!
So your pre-reading notes are brilliant and are making everything fall into place. Guglielmo’s “powers of deduction” are just so Sherlock Holmes! When he starts on one of his explanations I find myself quite ready to “go with the flow” and not worry about any words I don’t understand.
Non vedo l’ora di condividere idee nel book club.
Mary Wilson says
Ciao tutti
I’ve just listened to the first two sections of the Rai 3 audio. Thank you Lana ! It is brilliant, but just a comment in case anyone gets confused………
The audio faithfully follows my kindle copy, but it is abridged , so there are chunks missed out. The second audio section finishes at “Primo giorno, Sesta”
A domani!
Rocco says
Hi All,
I got my copy of “Il Nome della Rosa” on Kindle. The copy I got came with an Italian-English dictionary that downloads onto the Kindle itself. After that, all you have to do to look up a word is to touch it on the screen. For me, that’s a lifesaver. I think I’m wearing a hole in my screen 🙂
Judith says
Ciao tutti, la storia è interessante, ma non mi piace il latino e la dottrina, vengono tra il lettore e la storia. Penso che imparerò passare queste parte e concentrare sulle parte divertimenti! Se non ancora trovarti una copia, ho comprato sul Kobo. Buona lettura 🤗
Daniel says
Does anyone know of a good website that does Latin translations? I’ve been meaning to look for one, but haven’t got around to it yet.
Ane says
Ciao a tutti !
I got a PDF copy from academia.edu. They respect copyright and it’s free. Buona fortuna!
John Dixie says
Ciao Daniel, I have the kindle edition and have made a start.
Val says
I’ve read to the end of Prima (definitely much easier than the previous two sections!) and will read Terzo this evening. I was surprised that I was able to form a picture in my “minds eye” from the text, though I will check the riassunto after I read the next bit to check my understanding.
I had forgotten about the passato remoto, so didn’t recognise it until I looked it up (disse, dissi), but it is interesting to see the different tenses used. Otherwise it is just the occasional unfamiliar noun… but I am finishing the chapter before looking anything up!
It is enjoyable though, possibly even more so than the recent TV adaptation I saw (which I did also enjoy)… I do tend to find, particularly where the book came first, that I prefer the book version as I tend to get more from it than someone else’s interpretation of a story! I am looking forward to reading more!
JP Kelleher says
Ciao a tutti!
I am very excited. I received an original copy as a Christmas gift and have been hesitant to start. My knowledge is more B1/B2 so this will be a good challenge.
Daniel says
No need to be hesitant, JP. It’s just a book. And even if you only understand 10% of it, you’ll have achieved much more than someone who was fearful to try.
It’s the nature of beginning to read books in a foreign language that it is intimidiating and the results are unsatisfactory. When climbing a cliff, always look up, they say, rather than down. In this case, it’s the opposite – take pride in every paragraph, page and chapter read.
Julie says
Thank you very much Daniel for organising this. I have been extravagant and bought the Italian and English version on kindle. I read the Italian version first and then the English. This has worked fairly well but now am about to get the “big” grammar book out to look at the use of venire as a passive auxiliary (new information for me). Time is flying by..
Derek Hook says
I have the book (in Italian & English) bought about a year ago
Also Aubible (Amazon) has an audio version 20 hours plus
Derek
Nancy Wright says
L’ho già letto il nome della rosa in Inglese molti anni fa. Ho comprato l’edizione Italiana due anni fa in una libreria a Roma. Ora ho la motivazione di leggerlo!
Pam crew says
Hi Daniel, like several other Australians having difficulty sourcing the book in Italian. Oddly enough it is available in German. Read it many years ago inEnglish and have watched the film withSean Connery and the more recentBBC production.
Excellent idea for a Bookclub I will try to work along with the rest of the group and try the kindle version.
Cheers Pam
Chris Goldthorp says
Managed to get it on the kindle app so will give it a go. Not sure if the level It’s a way of being accountable by joining in. Grazie mille
Daniel e in bocca al lupo a tutti!
Carol Nichol says
Grazie Daniel for this opportunity to dive into an Italian book. I have two copies of the book. An English copy and an Italian copy that I bought in Bologna last year. Thanks to Lana for the Rai Audio information. I started to listen to it in the car yesterday. I think I need to see the words on the page…. The music is beautiful. Chilling even.. It really sets the scene. Here goes…
Vslerie says
Thank you to all Australian replies for Il Nome Della Rosa. I bought it on ibs.it. for about EU6.
It challenged my Italian when buying but that was not a problem. Downloaded the the ibs.it app and now I have it on computer, iphone and tablet so I can read it anywhere.
LesleyP says
Grazie Daniel per aver iniziato questa buon idea!
Grazie mille a tutti che hanno contribuito idee per raccogliere i risorsi per completare quest’esercizio! Anche sono Australiana e non possiamo comprare il Kindle e allora l’ho comprato sul ibs.it; anche l’ho in inglese sul Kindle per capirlo meglio dopo aver letto l’italiano. Anche la versione aurale sul Rai e’ buona.
Ho trovato questo Bookclub in inglese che anche assiste in seguendo quello che succede: https://www.dailykos.com/tags/TheNameOfTheRose
Mandy Kennedy says
I have also downloaded the Italian version on Kindle and have started reading Chapter 1. There is a lot of vocabulary that I don’t know but I am trying to get the sense of it, especially the descriptive parts rather than worrying about understanding everything. The on line dictionary with kindle is useful, but I’m trying to use it sparingly, for example if I see a work cropping up several times. I think I might also download the English version to read alongside so I don’t miss out on anything vital.
Daniel says
My approach, Mandy, is that if a word ‘crops up several times’ and I haven’t managed to figure out what it is, it’s probably not important.
I know that sounds contra-logical, but the world is full of ‘ignorable’ words. The ones that aren’t are seized upon by your brain cells as you read/listen, processed until you have a hypothesis, then the hypothesis is confirmed or discarded at next sighting. Think of your brain as a predator – it doesn’t need help, just that something walks by enough times to get caught and eaten.
(If I’m translating, for money, I look up words… But not if I’m reading, for pleasure.)
Dave Ellis says
Ciao Daniel
I have finally started and try to get reading in in the chinks of time we have. Locked down with our 2 year old grandson – say no more.. I loved the film and the series so am looking forward to reading the Italian version.