We encourage you to buy and read the full version of Umberto Eco’s book! But if you can’t, due to the Corvid 19 emergency, here’s Chapter 2 of our ‘Riassunto facilitato per studenti di italiano L2, da Francesca Colombo’, which corresponds approximately to pp. 43-72 of the original Italian version. N.b. the meeting with Guglielmo’s old friend Ubertino, which takes up pp. 56-72 of the original, is not included here – it’s mostly just arguing about heresy, anyway.
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Guglielmo è allettato dalla sfida e accetta: “Chiedo il vostro permesso per interrogare i monaci e muovermi per l’abbazia”.
“Avete il mio permesso” risponde l’abate.
Guglielmo allora prosegue: “Per prima cosa voglio visitare la torre della biblioteca. Ne ho sentito molto parlare, è tra le più fornite al mondo, e la vittima è caduta da un luogo molto elevato, potrebbe essere proprio la bibl…”.
L’abate lo interrompe, turbato: “Questo non è possibile. Nessuno entra nella biblioteca eccetto il bibliotecario e il suo aiutante. Vedete, caro Guglielmo, ci sono dei testi segreti, persino…” esita un momento “… persino pericolosi per la fede cristiana”.
“Ma devo poter vedere il luogo del delitto!” protesta Guglielmo.
L’abate non recede: “Mi dispiace, non è possibile. Sono le regole del monastero. E vi chiedo di non provarci senza il mio consenso. Vi avverto che la biblioteca si protegge da sola, essa stessa è un labirinto: potreste perdervi e non trovare più l’uscita”.
Detto questo, l’abate esce dalla cella.
Guglielmo è contrariato: la biblioteca del monastero è avvolta nel mistero, sembra fatta apposta per occultare il sapere. Invece la scienza dovrebbe essere diffusa! Il monaco di Baskerville guarda il suo discepolo negli occhi, uno strano sorriso gli illumina la faccia.
Adso è preoccupato: “Maestro, non vorrete mica disobbedire agli ordini dell’abate? Ci ha appena detto che la biblioteca è pericolosa…”
Mentre Adso e Guglielmo stanno nella chiesa dell’abbazia, arriva uno strano frate con le vesti lacere e sporche. Sembra un vagabondo, e grida ai due: “Penitenziagite!” (ovvero “fate penitenza”).
Il curioso personaggio si chiama Salvatore, parla un misto di latino, lingue volgari come il francese e lo spagnolo e alcuni dialetti italiani. È piuttosto difficile interpretare ciò che dice.
Tutti, nel convento, lo considerano “una bestia ghiotta e lussuriosa”, un matto, ma sono convinti che non sia pericoloso. Adso è piuttosto inquietato mentre Guglielmo prova a parlarci senza grandi risultati poiché lo strampalato monaco fa discorsi sconclusionati, senza un filo logico.
Guglielmo, che è stato inquisitore, sa che il “fate penitenza” è l’esortazione tipica degli eretici seguaci di fra’ Dolcino.
Fra’ Dolcino è stato messo al rogo da tempo, ma molti suoi discepoli sono scappati spargendosi per l’Italia: Salvatore potrebbe essere uno di loro.
E se fosse lui l’assassino? Forse il defunto Adelmo aveva scoperto il suo passato da eretico e, affinché non ne parlasse con gli altri monaci, Salvatore potrebbe averlo eliminato.
Glossario
allettato: attracted
turbato: upset, worried
bibliotecario: librarian
cella: monks’ room
contrariato: disappointed
occultare: to hide
lacere: tattered, torn
strampalato: weird, strange
Esercizio
Abbina ciascuno dei seguenti termini presenti nel testo, con il suo contrario:
1. proseguire
2. parlare
3. inquietare
4. perdere
5. occultare
6. disobbedire
7. illuminare
8. arrivare
a. rassicurare
b. mostrare
c. retrocedere
d. sottostare
e. trovare
f. partire
g. oscurare
h. tacere
Soluzioni | Back to Italian Literature page
Daniel says
Buondì book clubbers, wherever you may be in the world. It’s ten a.m. here in Italy, late afternoon in the southern hemisphere, and still the middle of the night in north America.
But anyway, there’s not a lot of ACTION in this section of the book (as you will find out), the remainder of the PRIMO GIORNO lays out the background to the story, and introduces some of the main characters and places. The SECONDO GIORNO doesn’t get going until p.109 in my paperback version, so we’ve quite a lot of reading to do until the pace picks up again!
For that reason, I’d suggest as a topic for today’s discussion/interaction here, a reflection on the way we read, and how that may or may not be mutating as we turn the pages and progress through the book. It SHOULD, in theory, get easier, as you get to know who’s who and what on earth they’re all on about (even if your initial understanding is limited…) That’s the nature of narative, of films, of books, and in particular, of the much more recently-popular mediums of multi-part novels (Harry Potter) and TV drama (Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad etc.)
So my question is, IS IT IN FACT GETTING EASIER, from day to day, as you turn the pages, as your brain begins the process of tuning in?
And secondarily, but no less interesting, WHAT is it that is getting more familiar (or otherwise)?
Obviously, there’s the content – the characters, their situations, the context, the background – but there’s also a mass of vocabulary – the job titles, the times of day, the elements of the physical environment, and so on – and last but not least, from a language point of view, the grammatical structure of the text – you’ll have noticed that it’s all ‘passato remoto’. That can be a shock, if you’re not used to it, but I always found (even though I don’t actually KNOW the tense) that it’s not hard to get the hang of once you start seeing enough examples.
So, HOW are you reading? And is your reading process MUTATING (improving? becoming more efficient?) with experience and familiarity?
It certainly is for me. I don’t read novels much, hardly ever in fact. So the actual making of time in my day to pick up the paperback and knock off another few pages, or ten, has taken a while to establish – rather than, say, the usual default of checking emails or listening to the news in Swedish, or what I would otherwise be doing if I wasn’t trying to get through ‘Il nome della rosa’.
And then there’s the mass of stuff which was initially unknown – the doctrinal issues, the historical background – but is now becoming familiar (I’m at the mid-point of the book.)
Other parts (the Latin), I’ve simply learnt to ignore, out of necessity. Is it essential to understand everything? Does the author intend/expect us to do so? I wonder if Eco sees his readers as ignorant young novices, like Adso, who will gradually learn what the older brothers already know, but would be wise to show patience and to contain their curiosity. For in Adso’s world, to know too much can be dangerous…
I’d argue that the key to success in reading a novel in a foreign language, especially this one, is to tolerate a degree of uncertainty (content, grammar, vocabulary, genre), to learnt to accept the known-unknowns, so to speak.
Otherwise, you risk becoming lost in the labyrinth!
Over to you.
Laura says
I am so thrilled with this idea, one I would have never been able to do before quarantine.
I have a little bit different experience as I am listening to the RAI version. I am finding it challenging but I’ve red the book and have seen the film way-back-when so I know the story.
Here’s my point, I listen the book first while attempting some sort of indoor fitness. Then I listen to EasyItalianNews. which is now SUPER EasyItianNews.
Thanks for doing this. It’s brilliant in general but the book choice was truly inspired!
Martha says
I’m still trying to catch up but I wanted to say I liked this exercise. Great for our vocabulary if we really look at the words and compare relationship between them (which explains the particular sense of the word) Hard to explain what I mean this early, hahaha, hope it makes some sense!
Steph says
I’m finding that it gets easier as I go, and am enjoying it
I want very much to keep up with the group and the comments but my Kindle version doesn’t have pages, only locations, and I don’t have the chapter names that you have, Daniel. I just have Primo Giorno, Secondo Giorno etc. I wonder if anyone else has this version and if you have figured out where we are?
Daniel says
Kindle versions are formatted so that they ‘flow’, Steph, according to such factors as your font size. Hence no page numbers. Ideally, the Kindle version should also have the time references as subtitles but sometimes lazy formatters leave these out because when you create a non-chapter division in a Kindle-format or Kindle-compatible format ebook, there’s the danger it will mess up the index, or create an entire new section in the book.
Beh, anyway – if you’re lost, you could try quoting the first few words of a section, or briefly describing it (Adso and Giuglielmo are in the Scriptorium for the first time / for the second time, etc.) I’m sure some kind soul will help you out.
Or just keep scrolling until you catch up!
Strph says
Hi Daniel, I had a similar thought but I’m wondering if maybe you could quote me the first line of Come un Labirinto? Then I could search for it. I gather we are still on Primo Giorno.
Thanks
Daniel says
There’s no point in trying to find the exact place in your Kindle version that matches with the riassunto, because the riassunto is massively simplfied for learners (which involves leaving lots out…) I can tell you what page number in the ‘real’ book a section from your Kindle version corresponds to, assuming you describe it in sufficient detail.
With the riassunto, the nine sections that I will be publishing should run more or less parallel, and should approximately tell the story, but is clearly going to be just the merest fraction of the real thing. I expect the writer selected the parts she liked best, which is fine.
Steph says
I meant the first line on each chapter in the actual book. Then I can search for it.
Mandy Kennedy says
I also have the kindle version Steph but in mine, although the index only shows Primo Giorno, Secondo Giorno etc, there are sub titles within each chapter in line with the monastic measurements of time. I believe the above Riassunto covers Primo Giorno Sesta. The way my Kindle is set up, this finishes at 14 percent of the book. The remaining sub chapters are Verso Nona, Dopo Nona, Vespri and Compieta before Secondo Giorno starts at 20 per cent of the book. I am just starting Verso Nona so have quite a lot of reading to do still, although from what Daniel says much of this is background rather than the meat of the story. I am just skim reading much of the descriptions and theological arguments and not worrying too much about how much I understand. It’s the detective story that interests me more.
Daniel says
“It’s the detective story that interests me more”.
I’m about two-thirds of the way through the 500 pages of my paperback, Mandy, and it seems that the background, theology and history just seem gradually to become more and more ‘relevant’. As with Adso, who knows little of it all at the beginning, it seems that we the reader start out mystified and intimidated (I, like you, focused on the detective story, which is much easier to read), but with time we all become much more familar with the ‘bigger’ events, and able to distinguish the players, the teams and the top-level power-plays. To my surprise, the detective story and the context gradually become one and the same thing.
Some parts are still hard to read, though…
Steph says
Thanks so much Mandy. I am just starting Primo Giorno Sesta so I have some catching up to do, but now I kind of know where I am.!
Thomas Vanderslice says
Buon giorno Daniele:
Mi sembra che abbiamo lo stesso libro, almeno nel mio il secondo giorno inizia su pagina 109 – il libro e stampato da Bompiani.
Siamo d’accordo – la lettura diventa piu facile pagina dopo pagina. Non sono troppo preoccupato con il latino, ne con tutti gli eresie (?). Interresante l’argomento rideva Christo o no – certamente Eco causa il lettore da ridere frequentamente.
These have been the only times I’ve attempted to write in Italian. Excuse please all the mistakes.
Colleen Beretta says
Hi Daniel and fellow readers. I really appreciated the link to the Rai reading of the book. I find it easier to read while I listen. I tend to get stuck on pronouncing words in my head and the reading doesn’t flow. I listen and read at the same time and then try to read it again without the audio.
Thanks for the tip about the Nota. I read it through and then checked my understanding by doing a search – I found an article on Wikipedia – Liturgy_of_the_Hours. I made a list of these and now I can refer to them when needed.
The Glossary on your ‘riassunto’ is very helpful. Thank you.
Debra Slattery says
First, I want to thank you again for doing this, Daniel! It is perfect timing for me because I have the time to spend since I’m on a mini sabbatical from work. What I am loving is the fact that in addition to the Kindle version, I have the audio version from Audible, so I can listen and read at the same time! I’m finding Italian is going through my head during the day and I love that! One thing that’s interesting about the Audible reader (Tommaso Ragno, who I think is great) is that oftentimes where the text has the final ‘e’ of an infinitive missing, he will pronounce it. May not be authentic, but I like it…
As far as what’s changing for me, one thing is I’m trying not to be as bothered about not understanding every word. I look up a few, but I’m really finding I understand more than I thought I would — I’m sure that will get better too!
Lynne F says
Today while cooking I listened to the audio link I discovered on Rai Radio. New words that i read in the text yesterday kept jumping out at me . 🙂 I take encouragement that these new words are obviously embedding in my brain. Thanks Again Daniel for this project.
Moira P says
Che sorpresa! Davvero sto leggendo un libro che ho evitato da molti anni in inglese, figuramici in italiano. Perché? Forse troppo difficile, troppo filosofiche e giacché è scritto da un professore, specialista della storia medievale la scrittura non sarebbe accessibile.
Quanto mi sbagliavo.
Questo è un giallo, appunto ma quello che promette profondità sulla base dalla conoscenza dell’autore dei tempi medioevali.
Tuttavia avendo messo in scena l’ambiente, con quasi precisione scientifica, sono pronta per l’azione!
Ringrazio molto Daniel e il suo team per avermi dato l’opportunità e la spinta essenziale per affrontare questo famosissimo romanzo.
Colleen Gilbert says
I am listening to the RAI audio first, then reading along with it. I am also appreciating the riassunto with the exercises. Passato remoto is familiar to me (I could not actually write it, though) because I like to read Italian versions of fairy tales. I am not worried about understanding everything- that did not happen even when I read the book in English!!! The monastic setting and the Hours are familiar to me from reading the Brother Cadfael books by Ellis Peters. my intention remains to enjoy the story and be more confident reading and listening to Italian. Thank you for this! It is a very challenging learning experience.
Sylvia May says
yes, I too thought immediately about the Cadfael books, which I love!
Lana Blackburn says
Ciao tutti!
I wish I have more time to savor it slowly because it’s really a great book! Unfortunately, working from home and taking care of my family and house when everyone is at home doesn’t make it easier, quindi mi affretto piuttosto che divertirmi.
Per quanto riguarda il testo, i dialoghi e le parti d’azione sono facili, ma le parti descrittive (chiesa, pianti, ecc.), il contesto storico e un certo stile arcaico sono più difficili da seguire e apprezzare.
I first read it with occasional use of dictionary. Descriptive parts are hard but I read them anyway just acknowledging familiar words/expressions here and there and getting only a gist of what it’s about. Then I quickly read the same chapter in my native tongue (Russian) clearing all the hard parts. Then the 3rd time, reading again in Italian and listening to the audio (too bad Rai’s version is abridged as was noted before, but since I’m familiar with the text by then, I can follow). At this point I’m actually enjoying it and paying more attention to the expressions, grammar, style, etc. Overall, it’s a great exercise which I most likely would have never dared to undertake on my own, given my perception that I’m not ready yet to read real Italian literature (though I tried reading L’Amica Geniale after reading it in English first).
I am surprised to see in Riassunto a connection between Salvatore and fra’ Dolcino, which I missed completely. Yes, Guglielmo and Ubertino talk about all kinds of heretics in Sesta and Ubertino mentions fra’ Dolcino come “guella serpe” or “dello zolfo di fra Dolcino”, but that’s about all I got. Feel clueless like Adso, forse più tardi sarà più ovvio?
Lana
Lynne B says
Yes, it’s getting easier. I was familiar with the passato remoto but the sheer volume of examples is helping to cement it. I am finding I am noticing more about how the sentences are structured, how descriptive passages are mixed with direct speech and past actions. Yes, the meeting between Ubertino and Guglielmo was a bit tedious but I got there in the end and was happy I understood the gist. I haven’t tried listening yet but given the rave reviews here I’ll give it a try.
Pam says
Scrambling to catch up as I was a late starter…
Thankyou to the bookclubber who mentioned Acedemia.edu That is where I finally found a copy of the book in Italian as a PDF.
Daniel you ask Is it getting easier to read?….hmm sort of. I am getting sidetracked into the detail of the text esempio…the description of the Abbey…its octaganal walls with internal walls that appear as pentagons but are not, ….the building exemplifies the coming twists and turns of the plot a labirinto, indeed.
Comments have been made regarding the Conan Doyle connection but I have always been intrigued by the the title, Il nome della rosa which reminds of another famous William, who wrote something along the line s of. ‘Una rosa chiamata con qualsiasi altro nome sarebbe ancora un odore dolce’ another twist if you are considering the philosophy of Nominism.
Helen D says
It’s slow going for me Daniel but I am persisting. Will be making a big effort over the Easter weekend to achieve more and catch up.
Having said this, it’s a wownderful challenge and one I never would have dreamed of taken on a couple of years ago!
Helen D says
I have decided to read along with the Rai audio. For some reason this is helping to keep me focused and gives an extra dimension to what I read. Does this constitute “cheating” or is this an acceptable way to get into it?
Daniel says
I’ve always found that listening and reading together is a good way to get through it more quickly, and also helps avoid the temptation to look up unknown words. Listening is ‘real time’, which makes it harder of course, but also brings a sense of progress.
So why not?
Be aware that several people have commented that RAI’s audio-book is abridged. If you’re going to follow it, just skip the missing sections.
Wendy Hartnell says
I’m actually revelling in taking Daniel’s advice and skimming a lot of the history and philosophy. Sometimes my curiosity is piqued and I google some Franciscan; Pope or Emperor or otherbut generally I’m looking for the detective story. If a new word comes up several times though I do usually look it up. That happened with “lussuria” which came up three times in a paragraph. My dictionary says is “possibly inappropriate” although the translations don’t sound particularly vulgar to me. Anyway, the thing I find with Italian books is they often have their own peculiar vocabularies and some way in it does get easier as you get used to the range of words.
Simeon Underwood says
Daniel — thanks yet again; I am really enjoying this, even though in places it is quite challenging.
In your comment you used the phrases “ignorant young novices like Adso”. One of the things about the book I am enjoying most is the way Adso — both the young Adso in the narrative and the old Adso who is the narrator — is being depicted and developed. And it seems to me to me that one thing he is not is ignorant. He has had a good education, and has travelled more than most young people of the age. He has an outstanding personal tutor. And on my reading at least there are signs that he is learning from it. So for example there is a particularly telling moment right at the end of the long (and difficult) description of the portal to the church where Adso says: “E compresi she ivi eravamo saliti per essere testimoni di una grande e celeste carneficina.” (p.60 in my edition). This is not the sort of remark you would expect from Watson or Poirot’s Captain Hastings or Morse’s Lewis.
Is this getting easier to read ? Yes and no. Yes, I feel I am getting used to the style of the straightforward narrative sections. No, because there is a lot more to the book than the straightforward narrative sections. It is not written in a single, homogeneous style. Instead it brings together various styles and voices, sometimes almost pastiche or parody; and this is part of what the book is about — it is not just a whodunit..
I was also struck by the passage where Adso invokes the Tower of Babel in talking about Salvatore’s language, “… proprio la lingua babelica del primo giorno dopo il catigio divino, la lingua della confusione primeva” (p.62). Some years ago I read a book by George Steiner on language and translation which is called ‘After Babel’; and the idea of Babel is important to writers and thinkers who are interested in language and translation.
Mary says
Ciao tutti,
I am enjoying being a part of the book club because it is making me read much more quickly. I have a “deadline” to meet and have taken on board the idea of skimming over the church doctrine. I am finding the audio very useful as well because I have to keep up and stay focused so that I can stop the recording, skim the bits that are missed out and then pick it up again. I like the constant reinforcing of words and expressions that reading gives you. Its that feeling of progress you get when you realise you have remembered and understood a word or phrase you have recently learned.
PS. I love the description of Salvatore’s language skills.: “Salvatore parlava tutte le lingue, e nessuna.” Nevertheless not forgetting Adso’s punchline “tuttavia io capivo cosa Salvatore volesse intendere.”
Sylvia May says
To echo what another contributor said, it would be helpful if we had the first line of the day’s reading. I too am on a Kindle version, and I haven’t time to take it all in, so I’m reading what I can, then catching up with the reassunto. I have no idea now where in the book we have got to, so an idea for those of us on electronic devices would be helpful if it’s possible.
Many thanks, Daniel, for doing this. It’s yet another adventure for me into La bella lingua.
As to reading, I think it’s getting easier to read and take in, though I find I have to break off from time to time when I realise my attention has ‘lost the plot’. Brilliant exercise!
Sergey says
Ciao a tutti!
Io sono Sergey dalla Russia.
Ufff, ragazzi, non so come voi leggete il libro, ma io ne faccio molto lentamente. Il mio vocabolario è pochissimo, quasi ogni frase del romanzo contiene parole che non so, così devo trovarle in dizionario. Dunque, ora è la sera tardi di giovedì e ho appena letto il capitolo “Terza” che, secondo l’orario di Daniel, dovremmo finire di leggere l’altro ieri. Certo, potrei semplicemente leggere il riassunto, ma non cerco la strada più breve e facile. Inoltre, leggere il romanzo mi dà davvero piacere. È interessante non solo in termini di apprendimento della lingua Italiana, ma offre l’opportunità di riflettere su questioni religiose e filosofiche. In questo senso, mi è piaciuto di più la conversazione tra Guglielmo e l’Abate.
Per quanto riguarda il mio ritardo … Come diceva frate Guglielmo, “Sia così!” Dopotutto, in ogni società deve essere qualcuno che va indietro rispetto agli altri. Beh, perché no io?
Ciao e buona lettura!
Sergey.
Daniel says
It’s not a race, Sergey. There are no deadlines. Go at your own pace.
I’m publishing 9-10 articles over three weeks, but it’s quite predictable that many people won’t get the whole way through the book in that time, if they even start. We’re each on our own journey, though together.
N.b. Your Italian is clearly very good – why bother looking up all the words you don’t know?
Sergey says
Hi Daniel!
Thank you for your message!
I would like to answer your question.
As I said before in my post, I read the book not only to improve my skills in Italian, but also to get pleasure of the story itself. I would say even so: the course of the detective story addicts me less than attempts to understand author’s thoughts that he putted in mouth of his heroes (just in case, I apologize for my English). Wonderful text by Umberto Eco really does worth it.
That is why I try to get the sense of every sentence absolutely clearly, translating with a dictionary every word I don’t know. And as a reward, when I understand everything, I feel a real satisfaction, I say to myself: “I’ve got it!” What else the happiness is? 🙂
Look, for examle, at some pieces of the dialog between Guglielmo and abbote.
“… Spesso infatti è indispensabile provare la colpa di uomini che dovrebbero eccellere per la loro santità, ma in modo da poter eliminare la causa del male senza che il colpevole venga additato al pubblico disprezzo. Se un pastore falla deve essere isolato dagli altri pastori, ma guai se le pecore cominciassero a diffidare dei pastori…”
What an idea! Isn’t it wonderful?
Sometimes all words in a particular sentence look familiar, but the Italian phrase is written so floridly that it takes pretty time to comprehend it.
Look at these, please!
“… uomini come voi, che non solo sanno distinguere il bene dal male, ma anche ciò che è opportuno da ciò che non lo è …
“Il dottore d’Aquino,” suggerì l’Abate, “non ha temuto di dimostrare con la forza della sola ragione l’esistenza dell’Altissimo risalendo di causa in causa alla causa prima non causata.”
Wow! Che cibo delizioso per la mia mente, vorrei dire!
Or the place where abbote explain why none of monks except the bibliotecario is allowed to enter the library and choose at one’s own the book they want to read:
“… Perché non tutte le verità sono per tutte le orecchie, non tutte le menzogne possono essere riconosciute come tali da un animo pio, e i monaci, infine, stanno nello scriptorium per porre capo a un’opera precisa, per la quale debbono leggere certi e non altri volumi, e non per seguire ogni dissennata curiosità che li colga, vuoi per debolezza della mente, vuoi per superbia, vuoi per suggestione diabolica.”
If I was young I would say “No! It’s not truth! It shouldn’t be so! Every person should choose himself what book to read, what knowledge or experience to get at the moment. And the person should have the right to get the access to desirable book, to get the source of desirable knowledges…”
But I’m 58 now and, for my opinion, the abbote is rather right than wrong. Sometimes a full knowledge of the truth is more destructive than a lie that hides some details of reality. The main questions are: who should be those “bibliotecari” who will decide which books (in a broad sense) will be accessible for us and which banned? What principles and ideas their decisions should be based on? Whose interests will they defend in the most probable reality?
Very hard questions for every society, aren’t they?
Ma che cavolo!? Ho scritto così tanto! Perdonami per favore per questa chiacchierata ispirata dal leggere del romanzo. Ma leggerlo non è stata la mia idea, non è la mia colpa. 🙂
Ciao!
Daniel says
The main questions are: who should be those “bibliotecari” who will decide which books (in a broad sense) will be accessible for us and which banned? What principles and ideas their decisions should be based on? Whose interests will they defend in the most probable reality?
Very hard questions for every society, aren’t they?
Actually not, I’d say, Sergey. One of Umberto Eco’s character’s poses your question, while another makes it absolutely clear what the answer should be.
Personally I’d say that any and all texts should be open to everyone and that our eductation systems should help us to learn to appreciate for ouselves what’s valuable and what isn’t. I have three children (the youngest is nearly 17) and I’ve never lived in fear of what they might discover in a library, or online for that matter.
Steph says
For Kindle users who may be confused about where we are, I went to the pdf version on academia.com and they have a table of contents that matches Kindle but with page numbers. I took a screenshot so now I have a reference.
Chris Goldthorp says
Still on capitolo 1! So much new vocabulary that try as I might I have to look up to even get the gist! I’m trying. I’m getting some of it . Hanging on in . Grazie 😊
Daniel says
I’m sure my Italian is a lot better than yours, Chris, but there are pages, in fact entire chapters, which are very hard-going, with dozens of things per page or per paragraph that I’m not sure about. But so far I haven’t used a dictionary once (in 300+ pages).
So much new vocabulary that try as I might I have to look up
Try harder, then. Just don’t use a dictionary, Chris. Simple as that. If you can’t ‘get the gist’, turn the page and keep reading. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.
Measure success by getting to the end of the story, not by understanding each part of it as you proceed.
Chris says
Grazie Daniel
Rosalind says
Another late starter here and hoping to catch up this weekend. I know it’s not a race but I’d like to be up to the current discussions.
I don’t try to understand every word and am happy just to understand what happens, or is thought about, in each paragraph. Having the summary plus the actual text plus the RAI podcast is a godsend and the fact that we are in this together adds impetus to my efforts. The 14th century fascinates me with so much going on (including calamities like the one we have today).
Do others understand Salvatore? Hopefully he won’t be giving vital indications which will mean I shall completely fail to follow the plot!
Daniel says
Do others understand Salvatore?
I’m studying Spanish right now (actually I’m not, but I should be…) and that helps with Salvatore’s speech, which is basically a mix of Latin and romance languages. Having an extra one other than Italian doubles your chances of figuring out what he’s on about. Also, it does get easier as you read.
Rosalind says
Hope you’re right in your last sentence. I speak French obviously but I can’t say it helps. Latin from school fell by the wayside long ago and my spanish extends to 2 words, mañana and coracon(?).
Daniel says
The characters in the book don’t understand Salvatore easily either, Rosalind. So maybe you’re not supposed to?
Laura says
I was fluent (but now a little rusty) in Spanish, and knowing Spanish helps me to understand a lot of the content in the riassunto. Just finished Riasunto di Capitulo 2. Grazie per i riasunti! At my very basic level of Italian it might be impossible to enjoy the book at all, ma mi piacciano i riasunti.
Isabel says
I’m 3 days behind due to futile search for full version of book in any format (in Australia) but I’m very much enjoying reading the “easy reader” version and also appreciate the exercises. I have the English translation somewhere in the house – it remains one of my all time favourite books, even though it was so long ago that I’ve forgotten “whodunit” – very convenient for me. I saw the film too and keep seeing Sean Connery in his monk’s robes.
I love reading in general and especially historical settings. My style, whether in English or Italian, is always “top down” skip over words you might not understand on first pass – I also believe that context is everything so when my daughter asks the meaning of an unfamiliar or archaic English word in a book she is reading, I ask to see or hear the whole paragraph.
I love trying to learn to read and speak Italian – I used to go to and classes before the Covid-19 lockdown and visited Italy last year (Grazie Dio). I’m still really only a beginner/low intermediate learner – I learn one bit of grammar and tend to forget the earlier bits I thought I’d learnt – but because I learnt some Latin and French at school I can usually have a stab at the meaning in Italian. There are so many cognates in English as well.
I find most easy readers somewhat dull – the plots and characters don’t engage me enough – but this one is so special for me and probably all I can manage at my level.
PS. I don’t understand Salvatore at all but really I have to say I don’t care. So superficial am I!!
PPS. People’s beliefs can never be changed by logical argument – a belief of mine.
John Dixie says
Hi Daniel,
What a brilliant idea to have a book club. I am really enjoying it, though I would prefer the pace to be slower. But I guess the riassunto will remain on the website for a while?
One thing does surprise me, which is that the reassunto appears to miss out whole chunks of the book, such as Adso’s thoughts on viewing the church and Guglielmo’s conversation with Ubertino.
Daniel says
“the reassunto appears to miss out whole chunks of the book”
It does, but it’s a very long book. And our riassunto is supposed to be a tool for learners, only that.
RAI’s audio version is abridged, too.
Annalinda says
I read The Name of the Rose many years ago when it first came out in English. I am not able to find the book in italian. I just started reading i riassunto today. One wouldn’t think that being in quarantine, one’s days could be so busy. But lots of reading for book clubs (in English), listening to Easy Italian News, reading/listening to other Italian sources, remote fitness classes, communicating with family and friends, etc.
I read through capilolo 2 this morning and am surprised at how much I am grasping and testing myself with the short assignments you have provided.
It is all wonderful and helping to make what could otherwise be a dreadful, lonely existence, actually quite pleasant. Grazie tante.
Daniel says
Forza Annalinda! Passerà.
Daniel
Jane Collins says
Hello,
I have downloaded the Italian version of the book in iBooks and started quite well in week 1 reading the first chapter. I really enjoyed the challenge and was surprised at how much I understood. I then fell behind probably because I didn’t schedule an Italian reading hour every day in my empty “stay at home” diary! I tried to catch up by reading the riassunto for Capitolo 2 which I did and found the glossary and exercises very useful. But that was beginning of the week and haven’t picked the iBook up again since then. I have just read all the comments of my fellow readers and feel inspired to make a time commitment to catch up!
Jane
Daniel says
“and haven’t picked the iBook up again since then” unfortunately, a fairly universal experience, Jane. I start books and fail to finish them all the time, then feel bad about it. But I finished this one!!
Rob Lee says
I am wondering if anyone else has taken a different tack like me. I have never read a “real” Italian book let alone a classic of Italian litt but I decided that this was going to be slow so why get stressed and rush it. Enjoyment is all about perception. Why should 3 months to read a book be less enjoyable than 2 weeks? I also reckoned if Il Signor Eco chose to use the language and words he did then why not try to decipher the riches of his craft. So, I’m progressing slowly looking up loads of words I don’t know and really enjoying it because I love getting the details (science background, not arts). I also reckoned that you could condense the story down to “A man arrives at an abbey where a monk died a few days earlier and he finds out that XXXXX did it” but where’s the fun in that. So if there is anyone else out there on the same road as me do say hello.
PS Daniel, if you end up reading this, no criticism is intended of your philosophy, I just like the details. Without your suggestion and choice of book I would never have started and I really do feel this journey is worth taking, even at a pace slower than a snail.
Daniel says
Yes, of course I’m reading your comment.
There’s nothing wrong with taking it slowly and checking anything you want, or everything, if your objective is understanding the book in as much depth of possible. But that’s a poor strategy most of the time for learners, if for no other reason than it can be hugely demotivating. But if you have time, and you enjoy it, then why not? Come back in a year or so and tell us that you finished!